I also totally agree with you here. I also think that CL's criticism of riot grrrl was kinda stunted because she didn't really offer alternatives.

You know, drugs really do turn people into hypocrites and prevent people from reaching their potential.

I don't see how my responses are any more "preachy" than yours... oh, that's right! because they have a "feminist/feminazi agenda" attached! i honestly find that assumption to be pretty hilarious. everybody has their own background/cultural & theoretical grounding and you very cleary have your own. it's kinda pathetic that you got some sick pleasure out of harassing me online but once again, whatever, i just seriously hope that you regulate that type of behavior to the internet man....

i'm glad that you can at least admit that you get some sort of strange fulfillment out of yr hatred of me. be aware, cuz im positive that no matter what i do or say, it will continue. :D

i'm so done by now.



and to the rest, yalz got me listening to hole all day!

it's so clear how little of what i type you actually read, which makes this conversation all the more hilarious. because obviously all you want to do is attack me.


i'm out to the phone store so peace out (or not, whatever you want)

I haven't listened to hole in such a long time. Pretty on the inside is a good album.

Live through this is second imo.

pretty on the inside got me into hole. live through this kept my interest.

celebrity skin is not hole.

Malibu and Celebrity skin are the only Hole songs I like from that album.

their first singles are so so so so fucking brilliant

i am OBSESSED with retard girl

Ah, I haven't left yet....got kept at work...

Retard Girl is amazing!

20 Years in the Dakota (and yes, i know she smashes riot grrrl on this one...once again, people are allowed to have contradictory interests) and Burn Black are probably my favorite Hole songs...I really value most everything on My Body the Hand Grenade...

the guitar sound on retard girl especially but also on the other early shit sounds so dirty and nasty and awesome. & there are few people who sing with such genuine rage.

I soooo agree with you here.

hole are rubbish!

did that really warrant an exclamation point?

if all that riot grrrl was meant to be was a way for girls to 'rock just as hard as the boys' then it was a lot less interesting than I thought. Despite the name, there were boys involved in riot grrrl too and from my memory the idea was never to reach some kind of equilibrium with the rock world. My memory of it is that it was more an attempt to find some kind of an alternative to it. It rejected ideas like technique, gear fetish and and other coventions that were staples of the mainstream rock world, and had begun to find their way into alternative rock via bands like dinosaur. A lot of those ideas were borrowed from the post-punk/c86 era but, as secondhand and maybe even naive as those ideas may have been, they were far more exciting than merely campaigning for women to be taken seriously while rocking out during guitar solos. Vixen had already sort of done that.

okay.

how many of those bands lost members, split up, or turned rubbish due to drug use?

yes!

yeah, it's not like a rock version of hollywood feminism which means women get to maim and kill on screen as much as men do.

merzbow blows!

he blows up holes!