$8/h deductible wat? oh yeah the state of texas didnt expand medicaid with obamacare lololo.

you do live in the worst place.

Dude, I literally gave you tons of evidence and reason for a national health service when we went back and forth. To imply otherwise after I got bored of the argument is sooooo disingenuous. You only gave me bad faith strawman arguments back that didn't undercut the point of what I was saying most of the time, unless some random NYT article about the Swiss health service being the BEST is supposed to convince me otherwise (oh wait, Switzerland is only ranked 20th on healthcare in the world lol).

I didn't pull my feelings on the world out of my ass yesterday, I've lived with this healthcare system my whole life and I pity people who have to deal with the American healthcare system more today than I ever have.

Also, I'll copy and paste this a few times so you can't ignore it:
AMERICA IS THE MOST POWERFUL NATION IN THE WORLD YET RANKS 37th FOR HEALTHCARE
AMERICA IS THE MOST POWERFUL NATION IN THE WORLD YET RANKS 37th FOR HEALTHCARE
AMERICA IS THE MOST POWERFUL NATION IN THE WORLD YET RANKS 37th FOR HEALTHCARE
AMERICA IS THE MOST POWERFUL NATION IN THE WORLD YET RANKS 37th FOR HEALTHCARE
AMERICA IS THE MOST POWERFUL NATION IN THE WORLD YET RANKS 37th FOR HEALTHCARE
AMERICA IS THE MOST POWERFUL NATION IN THE WORLD YET RANKS 37th FOR HEALTHCARE

Seriously, WHY do you think that is? And don't give me some bullshit about "hmmm well inflation in 1978 led to a collapse of insurance premiums and blah blah". No, it's because your for profit health system DOES NOT WORK. The evidence, reason and logic in this argument is not on your side, sorry.

see this is what you continue to fail to understand

this is not a monolithic country. there are many systems operating at once.

yes, it definitely needs fixing in places.

but “socialism” is not the fix

and chants can’t supplant reason

I'm terribly confused. We all know that USA Health Care is a complete fucking mess. (I live in Canada. Lucky me.) We can argue all day about this, but Obama at least tried to so something. Trump has only tried to kill what Obama did - what are Trump's grand ideas on this file again?

"Chants can't supplant reason"

ME: Okay cool, here is a ton of reasons why then. Here's a bunch of evidence also.
symbol man: "socialism"!!!! venezuela!!!!!!!!!

see, children , these are the actual problems of the us health care system

https://www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/563519/

thats what needs fixing, per the experts.

it helps to consult them instead of listening to chanting demagogues

chants chants chants chants
repeat repeat repeat repeat
lie lie lie lie
etc etc etc etc

So that backs up that the system is fucked. Majorly fucked. It's a system based on one fundamental-profit and nothing else.

"Chants":D you're the one who keeps going back to Venezuela and Brazi as your fallback. Not sure what chants I've been saying but hey-ho.

Less of the patronising arrogance too. Makes you look like a moron.

See, this is where he knows he can't argue back on any of the points Derek has made so resorts to (oh the irony) chants.

I didn't get my view from "chanting demagogues". I'm not an American dude, a national health service is just another part of life for me. I didn't become a socialist through Bernie nor did he shape anything I think (he's also a social democrat, not a socialist). You don't have a legit argument at all to any of this I'm pretty convinced.

Okay cool, you posted another random article. Let's have a look. Oh wow, the number one problem the experts say need fixed is lack of insurance coverage!! I wonder how that issue could be solved for every single person in your country? Oh and look, the other two problems are administrative inefficiency and under-resourced primary care.. things that people for a for profit system accuse a national health service of also!!

Also what about the vast amount of experts who write about the benefits of a national health service? Or are you just cherrypicking?

Btw, your article makes my point too:
Wasn't one of your arguments that the poorest and most vulnerable get some sort of coverage in the end? It's just not true!! A LOT of people fall through the cracks through no fault of their own.
Interesting how countries with a national health service lack this specific problem. And it's one of the biggest problems the "experts" have according to you!

the netherlands or switzerland dont have that problem and they are for profit and have better quality

Oh my god lol

"We can't build a national health service in America, there are many systems operating at once!"
"A for profit system works because of some super small European countries with low poverty rates and other nationalised services that America doesn't have"

symbol man turns to his family with a tear in his eye. "Guys we got em :cool:".

im for the expansion of insurance and a public option as well as insurance regulation

but unless i cry against “profit” im for mass deaths right?

In a way, yes.

lmao ok...

I for the complete and total abolition and destruction of any and all private insurance companies.

who’d you put in charge of the inevitable rationing function?

anyway came here to say fucking trump goes all the way to brazil to talk shit about mccain

wtf

oh im on drugs lol sorry he is here haaahaaahaaaa

still, fuck him

what do rations have to do with medical care?

health care resources are limited, so they’re rationed in different ways

you’re aware of this yes?

Obama used pseudonym to talk with Hillary on private*server......THIS is why Comey said FBI didn’t need to prosecute Hillary......CAN’T get Hillary without taking down Barack Hussein Obama II......and many here think President Trump has no class.

Just because Clinton created racist immigration laws (don't forget the 1994 crime bill too) and Obama stayed complicit (his whole presidency really) doesn't mean that Trump isn't evil as fuck for his more aggressive part in its continuation.

Nothing evil about enforcing the law!

President Trump just doing what he promised he would do if elected.

I don't support anyone involved in this comparison but there is clearly a difference between what Obama or Hillary may have done and suspected collusion with a foreign country to win an election.

It's evil when the law is evil.
Oh, he definitely is.

This thread should turn into who's the biggest square amongst all of us. I'm definitely up there for being one the least square, but then again I have no competition apart from Savage Clone, clearly on the lead. Unless I've missed people who clearly are not squares and I haven't noticed.

Robert Schunk doesn't count because he's just some idiot who posts on here with the wrong opinions all the time and doesn't give a shit about about music anyway.

i’ll play. i’ll be a big square.

i can’t unsee what i’ve seen, so i’ve decided to commit to deeper squareness (not like i was other than before). so yeah just digging deeper.

ive changed my opinions over the years but always tried to uphold them with intellectual integrity, by which i mean, i’ve kept and defended them, unless otherwise convinced.

i know this is not a popular stance. im okay with that.

i’m never gonna be convinced by chants or social pressure. left my religion when i was 11 and have never looked back.

my original field of study was science. prove it to me. faith is for suckers.

bring on torquemada.

"He's just following the law the democrats put in place!"

https://www.revealnews.org/article/u...rant-children/

Oh look, here is an example of his administration violating immigration law from TODAY.

This thread will never change.

Trumpists will worship their man, and intellig.....wooops sorry....other people will shout back at them from across the aisle.

I don't think America is totally 100% fucked yet though. There's still some hope.

he barely won the first time (E College only) and now his approval rating is in the toilet. If we Dems DON'T nominate Sanders, we'll easily take the Pres in 2o2o

Everytime I hear this, I look it up and find that, in spite of all of the monumentally incompetent things that Trump has said and done, he is still well above 40%.

This will baffle me until my dying day.

Well above 40% is an F in every school I’ve attended.

Good news from FLA

https://www.rawstory.com/2019/03/and...ances-florida/

Assuming these are accurate, Obama spent a healthy amount of his years in the 40s range as well.


https://news.gallup.com/poll/116479/...-approval.aspx


Peaked at 67% in his first month, bounced around below from then on out, but never dipping under 40%

It's a civic duty to shout down anyone who supports right-wing demagogues. Fuck this liberal civility BS.

The person I'm replying to will probably continue the echo chamber system they've built in their head to justify supporting someone who only benefits a small minority of people and actively makes life worse and dangerous for many others, and I will probably walk away feeling like I've spoken to a brick wall, but if other people can read it and see that the logic and evidence is on the left's side then good enough!!

Also, Trump will always have 40% support. It's a hardwired position to take.

the 40% is not the problem

the problem is that the 60% of us who disapprove can’t agree on shit

btw uncle joe launched his candidacy yesterday. ah ha haha !

or was it monday? anyway....

he’s old as fuck but i hope he can unite the opposition.

How will he unite the opposition? He is an establishment liberal with a shoddy record and will most likely get metoo'd to hell. The idea of "crazy uncle joe who eats ice cream and pretends he's the hypeman to lovable Obama" will disappear with his candidacy once his ideology is put in full view.