to be totally serious for a moment sometimes at the end of a session i feel really fucking sorry for my psychoanalyst, like, man you just had to sit and listen to that. then i remember that i paid him. but still. i think they call that transference

BAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

Ok, ok.. memes like this are OK. Just to clarify. I know I've talked a lot of shit about memes here, but now I feel bad. Memes know I didn't mean it. Memes know I was just lashing out at the worst of them.

Memes know.

You have an actual "psychoanalyst?" Like, a psychiatrist or clinical psychologist who specializes in actual psychoanalysis, and advertises as such? Or are you just using the term as kind of a catch-all?

Not trying to be a dick, really curious. A lot of mental health clinicians avoid that designation for fear of accusations of pseudo-science, so It's pretty rare that a clinician (a modern-day, American clinician at least) will profess to be a psychoanalyst. But then I find that a bit wackadoo because there are plenty of "life coaches," and spiritual gurus and even LPC's out there who will feed you a much more jilted, fanciful, dangerous blend of bullshit unconscious theory and palmreading, just through a different straw (and without accepting insurance, because, you know, they're frauds).

Anyway, I hear you. I used to really put my therapists through the ringer. I'd challenge them and then decide to work with them and then turn on them again without warning. I'm not a nasty person, but the closest I've ever been to being vindictive was when I was dealing with therapists and counselors. Even when I was just being myself, and trying to work with them, I made everything harder.

Do you think this has something to do with my father feeding me cucumbers when I was little? I mean, that's a pretty transparent way to mind-rape a kid isn't it? Symbolic penis eating. Eureka!

Just kidding. Sorry. I didn neuroscience stuff once. Turned me into a dick.

lacanian psychoanalyst yeah

im not a merican.

is it true they just sit there and listen and say nothing?

i've heard of this

a woman i used to know went to one of them for a bazillion years

the only time the shrink spoke was when the patient said she wasn't coming back

does the silence work for you?

You pay someone to help you analyse Hitchcock movies?

i am the fuckin' hitchcock movie

they say almost nothing

they will give you little prompts to make you talk more

that sounds puzzling and superinteresting and i wonder if it works and why

my therapy (the one that saved my life & sanity) consisted of very intense and long discussions between the shrink and me.

rabbinical vs. quasi-zen approaches i suppose

at first i interviewed him at length about his job, actually. why he worked there and how he got to be a shrink. etc. i mean, i was hiring the guy, least i could do was interview him. over the years i got to know him almost as well as he knew me. in that way, i knew i could trust him. like-- don't just tell me something, but explain where you're coming from, and if i don't understand or think it's shit i'll let you know. so i often did.

anyway im rambling now. but yeah, this lacanian business is quite intriguing.

da hell!

im pretty sure Such is A OK.

OF COURSE HE IS

especially after no longer wasting time in this shithole his life is bound to improve greatly

yeah, like not missing more bong hits between heavy typing sessions and not postponing that old school gutter punk band. maybe grading his students before 11:00. just kidding of course.

ha! he did rep a lot. Jah bless him. good guy.

Re: therapy, some people have need of someone to talk to to confide in. others have a need for someone to confront their thoughts and ideas. yet others need someone to go back and forth, to draw out the issues. a good therapist knows the difference and will tailor themselves to the patient.

generally speaking, yeah; but the lacanian approach is 100% different from what we know as "therapy" here in 'merica. i mean fundamentally, from a theoretical point, it's a completely different animal, and so is the practical side of it. from what i understand, lacanian therapists (or more properly, analysts) never say a word and let the "analysand" do all the talking.

here a bit on that:

http://www.lacan.com/symptom6_articl...technique.html

some people need that. Especially people whose entire lives are spent being talked over or ignored or made to feel insignificant. an open, quiet ear is immensely valuable for self-preservation.

that's carl rogers "active listening". lacan is a different beast altogether.

i added a link above that explains the radical difference between american psychotherapy and lacanian psychoanalysis a bit

Werewolves?

more like flying toasters and chupacabra combo

Yep. Psychotherapy is the states is primarily based on a medical model, and "analysis" is not really part of the equation. Some therapists still utilize elements of psychoanalysis, but usually with a preamble, like "hey, we can try that if you really want, but understand that it will not be the main focus of our time together." Or some shit.

But with Lacacian psychoanalysis specifically... yeah, even ties to "psychoanalysis" as a term separate from and independent of modern clinical psychotherapy are loose at best. Non-'Mericans might not understand that "unconscious" (like "psychodynamic" and other Freud and/or Jung-derived terms) is a four letter word in the American model of psychology and psychiatry, which is now deeply imbedded in cognitive-neuroscientific and psycholinguistic theory. Lacan was ALL about the unconscious, and though I'm not at all well versed in non-American methods, I know Lacan had an entirely different view of the role of the "analyst." It was more about self-analysis than a professional "analyzing" and patient. Lacan did it himself, and tried to help his "patients" do the same.
This involved almost no participation whatsoever, as there was no real explicit procedure to the therapeutic process as it would vary based on the individual's perceived ... uhh... "lack." "Lack" refers to the object of the treatment, I think... a missing piece of one's identity, around which their language developed. Diving into the "unconscious" helps the patient to identify his or her missing piece.... or... something.

Clearly I'm getting away from myself here, but any reading I've done on this subject has been independent, as they didn't teach this particular kind of thing in my über-sciencey college and graduate programs.

Yeah, dead_battery, you have access to some interesting stuff. I'd definitely be interested in experiencing Lacacian analysis.

Thanks for posting that link, Slambang. This is fascinating stuff and I am woefully uninformed about it for a former would-be psychologist.

Though I actually knew plenty of professors (PhD and MD alike), who earned doctorates and professorships without ever getting more than a trivial run-through of Freudian theory. Surprising, but true. That's not what modern, APA science-dudes want to b associated with. I for one believe that it's a fascinating part of the history and evolution of mental health studies, and as such, should be part of the education of anyone deems an "expert" in such areas.

my therapist doesn't even speak when i enter the room, i have to start. he will occasionally interrupt or ask me to clarify a comment, but in such a way that it makes a certain point or insight obvious. he manages to make the insights and connection happen by saying very little. it's all already in the unconscious waiting to come out.

they way he works is extremely clever. it's hard to describe how he does it, but he can make you suddenly see a connection you didn't see before simply by saying something like "that happened after x happened" or "and you said this earlier". it is what i expected it to be like after doing my research beforehand. he has a tendency to force me to pin down exact dates about events in the past that i talk about, which was unexpected. he wouldn't let me get away with saying that "event x happened when i was around 15 or 16", he will push me until i get the year and my age right, until i link it to other events i keep bringing up.

That's interesting. My clinical coursework was limited (research nerd, right here), but I had a *bit.* And of course I sell out a small theatre with the amount of therapists I've seen... and one thing I've noticed, pretty much across the board, is that the event intakes precedence over the time. A LOT of therapists are fine with general ideas of the timing of things (8-10 years ago, "when I was five or six," "in my late teens," "when I was little"). They usually want to know, roughly, what your age was to frame within a larger context for their initial "assessment" and for their case notes.

It's weird. But American therapists are also very wary about asking for specifics about things that happened a long time ago. Your brain forgets and rearranges and reinterprets events all the time, and nobody wants to be blamed for encouraging or eliciting false memories. That's why they tend to take your word for it and move on with a general idea of the incident in question.

Damn, now I wanna read about psychoanalytical theory, but I have this dumb job to do at this stupid newspaper. Fuck my life ;)

that sounds fascinating.

i wonder if there are parallels with keeping a diary (i've never kept a diary because i'm paranoid)

the person i mentioned before who did this treatment never heard a single word, not one over many years-- or so she said.

Freud Jung had a profound understanding of both the occult and mysticism. That's how I figure our psychology. The fear of being devoured or possessed by the occult prevents practicing psychologists from offering practical therapy. They shouldn't be scared of the the lizard they should be scared of Baphomet the scapegoat.

The Hippocratic Oath that all medical practioners must take before entering their career, has a line about 'not removing the patient from their stone."

I took that as, a doctor is not responsible for a person's evil burdens or sins. And that's the 10 foot pole approach to psychology you're all describing. Fucking sucks. Sometimes you're just begging your doc to judge so you can figure it out faster but he/she might lose their practice if they do