it became public as soon as I talked about it.

now if I can just start my period....I'll be a man!

I'm trying to tell you that I don't think you're taking into consideration the effect of life experience on a person's intelligence, which should be a greater factor than music, books, and politics combined. And I know that street smarts aren't everything, but I'm assuming these people are for the most part still alive, and they did choose to raise you and your friends, and the way you talk about it, they aren't preventing you from spouting off on message boards and in real life about whatever topics you want. They are giving you your space to grow and develop as you choose, and so in that way they are giving you the control, which takes strength of character on their part. And that's where you and your lot come along, and somehow I doubt that you will be as understanding of the generation to come after you as your parents' generation was of you. The feeling I get on this board is that when all of the teenagers start reproducing, they'll be too busy imposing themselves and their tastes on their children to let the kids have that little bit of extra room to discover things for themselves. And yes, even go through a phase where they listen to atrociously bad music, GOD FORBID. You've set such a high standard for the kids and teenagers you know, that if/when your own children fail to live up to that, I fear that you may go apeshit. So this is just a heads up, to relax a little and enjoy what people can offer rather than expecting them all to be just like you.

Luxinterior you are missing the point slightly. Im not really talking about my family. My mother whist not interlectually inclined is incredably wise in the 'life experience' department. The people im talking about were absolute baboons. They had screwed everything up there entire life and dispite this when you would point the obvious out to them would still think they were right purely on the basis of them being older. They would then live to prove you right. They would argue even when it was clear that they were wrong and could never except that someone younger was in the right. In short idiots!...now being a legal adult (in the great state of wales anyway) I tend to take absolutely no notice of these type of people.

I'm nearly 19 and never talk down to anyone, or assume that just because someone is younger they are less intelligent. My Mother never talked down to me and I will never take such a condescending attitude towards my children. I hate people putting down teenagers because it is just simply unfair. Plus a lot of older people now come to me for advice.

I have also known people to lose wisdom in age. I think people get so comsumed with stress during middle-age that they lose focus. If they were intelligent to start with they usually gain greater wisdom, dignity and are all round nicer people to talk to at around 50. Its just a pattern i've observed and it of course doesnt apply to everyone...

All in all leave the teenagers alone people

How old are you luxinterior? (as a matter of interest)

I'm your age, though I'm sure you could have found that out yourself by looking at my profile.

I really do not think I'm missing the point. Basically you're complaining about a group of adults who you portray as deadbeats, yet you still persist in arguing with them over pointless things? You're wasting your time. And you have too much faith in your own generation to change things. It's not going to happen. Kids suck, and I think you're doing them a disservice by insisting that they are better people than they actually are. You make them out to be these great minds, which leaves no room for growth. Unfortunately I think too many people stop growing (intellectually) at such a young age because they're led to believe that they are smarter than they really are. So there's no motivation to improve or change, even though the situation may call for it. If in ten years you look back on yourself as you were at age 18 and are as in awe of your own wisdom as you are right now, then you wouldn't have made any progress whatsoever.

If I have nothing constructive to say to people in the real life, I won't say much.

Of course I dont argue anymore its pointless but getting treated like an idiot by a punch of actual idiots at 15 years old tends to make one cranky to say the least. People tend not to grow interlectually when treated like they are full of crap. Not long ago I was sitting by this 14/15 year old year (dont ask..) and her mother was having a go at her whist she was making a perfectly valid point. And I was sat there thinking the women was an idiot (someone I knew actually). Thinking there were so many better ways to deal with the situation. I'm not in awe of my own wisdom or intelligence im just irritated by the moronic nature in which the rest of society conducts itself. That has been a reoccuring theme ever since ive been about 14. I'm just a disenchanted miserable old hag and will nothing will ever change that.

On the subject of Teenagers. I Find when you treat them as you would other people, an intellegence, wisdom and personality comes out that you wouldnt have expected to exist. You just have to stop talking down to them...trust me I DO have experience in this field.

Thanks sarramkrop!
And as usual I love your posts!

Eric Begosian is a bad ass fucking playwright.
BAD ASS


Talk Radio is a great fucking movie. Begosian rules!

yawn. Slint wrote spiderland when they were 21. full stop.

We give our young, nubile bodies. What more do you want?

Bring on the nubiles.
The elderly in modern times try to act and behave like their younger counter parts, by listening to mainstream, popular music and buying into the new trend of absurd anti-ageing products.
I say bring in euthanasia. (only messing!)

and they have been milking it ever since.

its true that some teen/twenties do take up way too much room.

Wait! Don't post - it's a trap. Doesn't the number of responses to this thread sort of verify the above statement?

My point was that I'm more intelligent than I was then now. So are most people I know. Not necessarily more intelligent than *I* was at that age - I was pretty fucking clever - but more intelligent than they *themselves* were at that age. I think I'm right in saying that intelligence doesn't regress as you age until you get an awful lot older.

Point being, most individuals are more smart at 20 than they were at 15. Like I am.

N.B. Yeah, there are a lot of differing types of "intelligence" but you know exactly where I'm coming from here.

noone, outside of the arts and sciences (the "creative" endeavors) really does anything of worth in the world until they are past 30, most well past 30 years old.
It's just how it is.
which is why teens and young adults are alowed to act the fool and get stupid and raise hell and sew their oats. it does not matter.

most people do not get politically active until they have children and their children get a bit older.

the kids are allllllllllllright.

the young womenb still got tight big asses and wet coopappies and the guys still have rock hard bones they have NO IDEA what to do with to pleasure a woman.

all the better for the older guys giving it good to the young women out there who want someone to actually rock their world, instead of using them as cumbuckets,.



work sucks.

rob instigator, i thought you where 16.

hahah! Nope. I am just a child at heart! ha ha!

I am a 33 year old texarican

yes i can see how its easy to mix those things up.

OH. Excluding me, right?

i am part of generation Y or as i like to call it generation mistake

Really this isnt any different to the generation before or the generation before that. Chart Music has almost always sucked, the majority of people have always been idiots, Teenagers have always been outsiders and a 'great' band (in the sense of impact anyway) only comes around every so often. In short there will always be people standing on soap boxes shouting about how the current generation sucks or is in someway inferior to the last and they should almost completely be ignored... Rock out, peace and sonic love

If you dont like teenagers, you dont like teenagers...just remember you were all young once. Teenagers tend to act rebelious when they have a reason to rebel. But often this 'acting out' is nothing more than a persons frustration at being bossed around and told what to do at an age where to an extent one should have the cognitive ability to make decisions for oneself. Its funny how all the kids I knew that were bossed around and strict parents 'rebeled'. My mother would have never dreamed of treating me like that. As such we have never had a real argument since I was 12. Treat Teenagers like adults, dont talk down to them, let them make their own decisions but always be there for them. That is the recipe for a healthy, intelligent and wise teenager.

Nay, my friend. Youth culture didn't exist in its own right until the 50s as far as I am aware, kids just lived amongst their parents. I'm so glad someone put a stop to that!

Lux, I agree that there's a problem with people stopping intellectual growth at a young age (very often when out of education), when they "settle down" so to speak. Washingmachine often tells me about these idiots who used to argue with him and it sounds terrible, but I don't think its particularly representative. Now I am older I get into bigger disagreements with my elders and I usually come to the conclusion that they are simply set in their ways because they are from an earlier generation. The next one moves on, then stops when they reach their middle ages, to be dismissed as idiots by their offpsring. That's how it looks to me. Society moves on, old people don't. Everyone eventually becomes narrow minded bastards, though Washingmachine and I always swear we will never be like that.

It's funny how his posts are often a recollection of what we have discussed the night before.

Im sure youth culture has always existed in some fashion. Although it certainly came into force in the 50s. Just around the time they figured out they could sell stuff to kids. We can certainly say that teenagers have always been spoken down to and treated like second-class citizens...which is the whole crux of the problem here.

Funny coincisence there :p

Someone posted a link to a book all about the whole "selling rebellion to kids" thing I always rant about when im drunk....it seemed like your type of book

youth culture is a term that did not exist until the early 1950's. Post WWII
youth culture is a stupid term and youth culture is stupid. culture is culture.

once it gets a name, then people start to treat it like it has always been there. the same fucks that started the whole "youth culture" crap are the fuckers that did not want to be mature and groen up in the 6's and instead dropped out and tuned out, and then recovered in the 70's and started making bucks, because the drop iout scen4e is pointless and useless, and then they got into hedonism for hedonism's sake with cocaine qand sex binges, thereby bringing on the sexual revolution andthe spread of disease that came with it, and thos every same fuckers are now all reaching retirement age and you will see them convert the "old age" into some sort of "youth" aimed bullsht, as they do and did with everyting. the generation that refused to grow up is getting old and will die soon.

i enjoy teenagers for their precariousness and how everything they feel seems to bleed out of them in extremes . everything to be experienced is magnified and blended into the world in huge, awkward strokes . even the shy wallflower types . its all very dramatic .

but at the same time , im quite often irritated about how many teenagers' language all comes out as some sort of boasting . even if its about something completely mundane and un-noteworthy .

age segregation, which is the artificial isolation of people in age ghettos, is a factory of dead intellects and maimed souls. teenagers are not a bunch of cunts per se, it's when they talk only to themselves & believe their own crap without any additional input that they become life's equivalent of walking turds. same thing happens to any age group as a matter of fact-- children adults, the old, you name it. they become close-minded & "spiritually" dead. you need a mixture of innovation & experience to have a rich culture that does not fossilize.

having said that, young people have always come up w/ new shit. go read about the german romantics in the late-late XVIII early-XIX century who would put today's "youth culture" to shame as a tired repetition of commercial values. jean-paul, novalis, the schlegel brothers, von kleist, tiek, fichte, etc.