Even though I adore much of its music and many aspects of its culture, I can't help thinking that Japan is the ultimate 'exotic' country of choice for indie refugees. I haven't got a problem with that but, Christ, it's not the only 'exotic' place that produces interesting music.

Who said it had to be hard? It also sucks when people make long exacerbating posts and get to the same conclusion that they could have with a line or two.

Yeah... stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

Japan tends to make boring fucking punk and rock 'n' music.

God, if only my college papers could just let me write the conclusion and be done with it.

Too bad they get all hung up on "reasons."

No, Japan produces or has produced some beautiful music, but I can't help thinking that a lot of people into indie kinda force the country onto themselves, as if it's a rite of passage that they have to go through in order to be consecrated as proper conosseurs of leftfield music.

Listen to Musica Transonic, High Rise, or Mainliner, and then come back and tell me if you still feel that way.

i almost can't listen to merzbow and that sort of stuff because it's so completely dischordant and lacks structure. i imagine it would be useful for film scores and things like that but for me to actually listen to it proves very difficult.

There was a review in the Guardian of J. Cope's Japrocksampler that suggested that, record collectors having utterly mined the Kraut side of things, they're now moving towards Japan. The review was a little disengenuous about Les Rallizes Denudes, suggesting it was the obscurity rather than the magnificence of the music that appeals to record collectors.

I don't suppose what you're talking about is any different to the trend for African (particularly West-African) music in the 70s or the trend for Indian classical in the 60s. Or, further back, black-American blues in the 50s. These things happen, it doesn't really worry me, and I can hardly claim to be an expert on the entireity of the world.

I heard, in sound 323, a record of Chinese noise music. It was interesting insofar as they seem to take a very different approach to noise music (something that's very much needed at the moment), and it wouldn't surprise me if the trend moves thataway. Not that any of it matters, particularly.

I have a few CDs of young people's Sri Lankan music. They're all awful. I have one Bhangra tape. It's uttterly magnificent. Funny thing with Bhangra, unlike Reggae, people other than its 'main audience' don't tend to get into it. Very, very difficult genre to get into unless you know someone in the scene, wouldn't you say?

Americans may be stupid, but America has always produced the best music. I would elaborate but nobody would listen.

No, go on, elaborate. I won't ignore you.

Yes, I get it. I elaborate and then you say, "Did somebody just say something?"

I think in terms of underground music across all genres the US produces better bands and artists.

I was thinking about Chinese leftfield, experimental, avantgarde music or whatever you wanna call it, when I wrote that. I still have a feeling that, perhaps, there are records from other continents out there that have yet to surface and they will give us a clearer picture of what's happening or happened, but we will have to wait and see. I was reading something about John Fahey and his canvassing last night, and how so many records that could have been lost forever were bought through this activity by him and his chums, thus giving them a place in music history that wouldn't have existed without the dedication and passion that those musicians and collectors have/had. Fascinating stuff.

Missed point: Some people can say more with few words than some can with whole sentences.

Yeah, I'm sure there's some stuff that'll surface in 10 years from now that'll hopefully blow our tiny little record collecting brains (and let's be honest, you have to have very little going for you in the brains department to commit to record collecting).

Well if you happen to be referring to my paragraph of a post, I feel that I used just enough words to explain my conclusion.

No. You elaborate, and I then say "See, I always told you that that Pookie was an intelligent chap".

Oh, ok then. I'll get something written up during my lunch break.

its probably 50/50 for me. i guess i see more being british stuff in that i am british but whenever i have visited the states or whatever then i am impressed by whats there and the old interweb now helps me to discover more from our intellectually challeneged cousins.

There's always places where some local scene flourishes that in fact becomes highly influential for some certain period of time. Let's think of Mego records from Vienna in early 00's that pushed the boundaries of electronica with their harsh digital processings, or Fonal Records from Tampere, Finland that contributed to the free-folk hype of now. Or, the Chicago Touch and Go post-punk connection, or the wonderful epic of Constellation music from Montreal,...etc etc.

Therefore, I'd rather classify the origin more narrow than purely to "continents", you know what I mean?

One place I don't think anyone mentioned yet is New Zealand. From the little amount I own their take on drone/experimental music and indie rock (or whatever you'd call a band like the clean) is really great.

It al depends what type of music you're talking about.

For me, the countries that've made the greatest contribution to the following styles are:

'Classic Rock': Britain.

Alt. Rock: America.

Noise/psych rock: Japan.

Country/Blues: America.

Jazz: America.

Metal: Britain.

Pop: Britain.

Singer/Songwriter: America.

House/Disco/Funk/Rap: America.

Everything else: Global.





















































But because Britain produced The Fall, it wins.

i totally disagree, i think merzbow's music is very structured, i guess it depends which record you listen to, but when he does structured stuff nobody else making noise can come close to him

Kraut


Just sayin'

i suppose you're right, you'd know more about merzbow. i think what i meant was that it lacks melody and is extremely harsh.

music doesn't just come from england or the u.s.

that's true, although it wouldn't surprise me if he's done something that has some kind of semblance of melody. either way, if you don't like him it doesn't really matter.

No, but everything else is just copied from UK/US music.

yeah, those tribal africans TOTALLY ripped off robert johnson.
fucking copycats.

So I assume The Beatles went to Brick Lane and not India to nick a few ideas for their records, right?

the fall are english

enough said

Pookie's right though. Most of the music most of the people here listen to from countries outside the US and UK is just exotic versions of US/American alternative rock - or can at least be traced directly to its Anglo-American origins. (And I stress the use of the word most).

leaving aside experimental/leftfield music, if you look at your meat and potatoes "Indie" then the situation with british guitar music is about as bad as its possible to be, ive totally stopped listening to the radio now because the only things ive found to be anything other than excruciating over the last 2/3 years have been Arctic monkeys Klaxons and maximo park. like, ONE decent band a year. comparitavely America seems to have alot more variety to offer, expecially thanks to the internet.
Again i stress im referring to the indie-rock-guitar-pop side of things.

If you talk specifically about rock or pop music and this forum, you'd be right, and in fact I've never been too keen on many rock n roll or pop bands that haven't got an american/anglosaxon blueprint on them, but then there's a huge wealth of electronic music (from early experiments to Industrial, glitch etc) or modern compositional music (something that the English are particularly bad at) that has little to do with rock and pop. Traditional folk, jazz, you name it.It depends on what your tastes are like and more specifically the degree of interest in music that you have in general, simple as that. Personally I find that the Japanese rock out better than both the Americans and the Britsh put together, these days. The Australians or the New Zelanders also come up with interesting variants of the rock formula sometimes. But if push came to shove and I had to choose between UK or USA, the Americans win hands down, if only because the sheer size of the place has made it possible for so much good music to come out of it over the years. There's also the age-old story that way too much British music happened simply because either the press or the sheep that took it too seriously felt that things that haven't changed the musical landscape as much as first thought, HAD to happen, rather than let things happen naturally. Ultimately music can be one those things that can age rapidly or aquire a timeless status like anything of variable quality, but the Americans (with its sheer number of ethnics,traditions and sceneries) have much more to choose from. And let's face it, the Americans don't brag half as much as the English about their own achievements, that's something that I have noticed on a number of occasions, be it on this forum or elsewhere.

edit - Pookie and demonrail666

all english speaking countries should be bombed clean.

Using Mexican munitions, I hope.

Then where would all the other countries steal their music ideas from?

i don't know, ask your country men.

i mean, they didn't steal them from immigrnats from other countries, did them?

italy italy italy italy italy italy italy

I'm so glad the two of you mentioned China.

China has the potential (and people) to revolutionize everything in the next ten to twenty years, and this includes music. We might as well throw India into the mix as well, the advancement of Eastern European countries (albeit at a much slower pace) should factor into the future of music and art too.

This is sort of off topic.