what i think refused excel in wasn't their "radical" musical explorations or their "radical" ideologies and lyrics. i think they excelled because they wrote damn good songs in a variety of styles, making (in the shape of punk to come) a very solid album from start to finish, also something i feel ulysses lacked. the proof is that so many bands have taken ideas from that album and that band and most of them are conformists within their genre and scene.

and uhler; the international noise conspiracy are laughably lame, they probably heard the hives were going to sign to a major label and thought of jumping on the bandwagon at the same time. i'm still amazed it's the same guy in both bands.[/quote]

t(i)nc actually predate the hives and they were both on epitaph at one time. i saw them live at a club in tampa and they both sucked. what madethe show any good was that milemarker played, t(i)nc covered the stooges (and did a good job) and i was with a hot girl.

Nation is post-hardcore, in that they are certainly based in hardcore, but like the other bands in that vein they took it a little more far out, a little more experimental, musical, etc... in the same way post punk bands did with punk. other of these are drive like jehu, fugazi, etc.. Nation of Ulysses is fucking amazing, i love 13 point program and Plays Pretty for Baby just about equally and Ian Svenonious is one of my heroes, period. other dischord bands i worship are minor threat, rites of spring, dag nasty, void, fugazi, and youth brigade.

Ew, why did International Noise conspiracy have to be brought up? :(

One of the worst bands ever...

hardcore really is just a genre for people who don't know how to play their instruments properly, just like overproduced glittery pop shit is a genre for people who aren't really musicians at all but they've got sex to sell, etc etc etc.

Oh, c'mon, that's not cantankerous, that's just silly.

Mike Watt and the rest of the Minutemen, the Sun City Girls, The Ex, NoMeansNo, East Bay Ray and the rest of the DKs, Bad Brains, Sacharine Trust... The list of incredibly talented musicians to come out of the hardcore scene is staggering. The fact that they were outnumbered by lesser musicians and an often particularly close-minded fanbase does not diminish the reality of how great the best were.

the dead kennedys are NOT hardcore for fucks sake! like six talented bands in a slew of probably thousands of hardcore bands does not validate what you're saying. there are GOOD hardcore bands that i do like, but the number of shit ones far outweighs the good.

The DKs are for many people the original hardcore band. Not for me, I'd probably put the Germs there, but in a popular sense they sure are. You saying they are not a hardcore band reminds me of a discussion I once had with this girl who said she hated all New Wave. I pointed out that she loved the Police, and she insisted they were NOT New Wave.

Sure the bad bands way outnumber the good in hardcore, so tell me which genre that isn't true with again?

post punk. fucking excellent genre.

And who would you categorise in that?

the raincoats, the cure, joy division, the jam, echo & the bunnymen, gang of four, the birthday party, all kinds really but it's a relatively small group of musicians who all happened to be fantastic.
i don't think i've ever heard a bad first wave psychedelic band either. and there's not one bad glam rock band.

*Buzzer* That answer is incorrect.

bowie, t rex, sweet, slade, roxy music, alice cooper, new york dolls...all absolutely fucking brilliant music. don't you ever DARE disagree with me, you zygote.

true

i can name a lot of great hardcore bands. post punk is a great genre and i can't say that about glam rock but i like most of the bands you mentioned.

7 seconds
the adolescents
agent orange
the first agnostic front 7 inch
artificial peace
bad brains
(old) bad religion
better than a thousand
big boys
black flag
bold
burn
chain of strength
circle jerks
circle one
cro-mags
crucifucks
deadline
dead kennedys
deep wound
descendents
dicks
doa
(old)dri
dys
the faith
gorilla biscuits
husker du
inside out
iron cross
jfa
judge
limp wrist
marginal man
mdc
(the first two) meat puppets
minor threat
minutemen
necros
negative approach
(old) neurosis
project x
(old) redd kross
shelter
side by side
ss decontrol
soa
supertouch
teen idols
token entry
tsol
uniform choice
untouchables
verbal abuse
void
wasted youth
youth brigade
youth of today

that's all i can think of now.

sean finnegan (the drummer of void) died the other day. he was only 43 years old. i guess that means no void reunion.

This board is full of a bunch of haters, I tell ya.

that's really sad, he was a great drummer, at least i'm glad there's not going to be a void reunion.

that t&g album should be released.

yeah i guess that is a good thing that there is no void reunion. i don't think 40 year olds should be playing hardcore songs they wrote 25 years ago.

yeah, i agree.....

we just have strong feelings and express them accordingly.

the DKs were hardcore punk. to argue otherwise is moronic. that girl - she's a moron, the Police were new wave. man there's a lot of morons out there. whats next, one of these downloading-know-it-all morons (i've downloaded 10,000 songs so I know everything) will assert the Beatles weren't a Sixties band?

Well, technically...

In March 1957, while attending Quarry Bank Grammar School in Liverpool, John Lennon formed a skiffle group called The Quarrymen. Lennon and the Quarrymen met guitarist Paul McCartney at the Woolton Garden Fête held at St. Peter's Church on 6 July 1957 and added him to the group a few days later. On 6 February 1958, the young guitarist George Harrison was invited to watch the group (who played under a variety of names) at Wilson Hall, Garston, Liverpool. McCartney had become acquainted with Harrison on the morning school bus ride to the Liverpool Institute, as they both lived in Speke. At McCartney's insistence, Harrison joined the Quarrymen as lead guitarist, after a rehearsal in March 1958, overcoming Lennon's initial reluctance because of Harrison's young age.

:p

the original wave of hardcore bands, as previously stated, were great musicians. bad brains were incredibly techniquely difficult. gregg ginn was a great guitarist, minor threat were so fast that most people couldnt play like that. husker du as well where fast as fuck...
but as usual the bands that came afterwards and instead of being innovative like their influences, decided to parrot them and play one dimensional music, and ruined it.
thats why a lot of the original bands stopped playing hardcore...

bad brains and minor threat were so tight that when i first heard them i stopped playing bass fast. no reason to try to play hardcore punk if you can't do it right and i knew i could never play like that.

aside from andy gill, greg ginn is my favorite guitarist. the sounds he makes and his solos are some of the most amazing shit i have ever heard.

i own the albums and i think the dead kennedys were hardcore punk and the police were just shit.