I quoted from the article in the magazine.

It is a subculture, though, in that a group of youngsters are into a style of music, a record shop or two is open to cater for this taste etc. A crap one it is too, but you can't call it anything else but a subculture.

There's that bloke, something Searle, I think his name is, who makes a complete fortune doing those kinds of make-overs to big pop hits. I remember him doing absolute wonders with Frankie Goes to Hollywood's 'The Power of Love'. It's a strange thing to dedicate your creative energies to though. The money's no doubt great but I can't see it being particularly rewarding otherwise. Better than being a postman though, I suppose.

It is kind of odd, but then again there have always been record companies that employ musicians/DJ's to produce that kind of stuff to sell it to clubs, advertising companies etc. Lou Reed himself started out getting paid to write disposable songs for cheap mass-market compilations on the Pickwick label. Apparently people like Jackson Browne and others all started out by going into these corporate places to write disposable songs in a few minutes for some money in exchange.

You're kind of insulting to people in general.

But, more seriously for a second, subcultures aren't defined by an individual's will, and neither are they defined by ration. Bassline/ Happy Hardcore (from which this whole Donk thing is springing) are definitely subterfuges within popular consciousness (they certainly affect a great many more people than this board's beloved 'noise' genre), I don't see why that isn't a subculture, or at least sub-narrative.

It's a fascinating process. I've known a handful of corporate writers - nice people, but definitely backroom geeks. The thing for me is that there's lots of 'you lift me up' (or whatever that Westlife song was called) but there haven't been a pop team as magnificent as Xenomania since... SAW? the Pet Shop Boys? It's a cunt, writing decent pop.

[quote=demonrail666]Why?[/quote

Because not only do i not like the music, it has nothing else about it that i can at least admire. So yes, i hate the idea of standards being so reduced and this falls right under that umbrella

I'm fascinated by that tradition. Anonymous hit writers and shapers. The 'Brill Building Sound', etc. Relatively unsung heroes of pop: Laura Nyro, Carole King, Claus Ogerman, et al. That ability to write great pop to order has been denigrated over the years, with artists too eager to write their own material regardless of whether they're actually any good at it. Being a great guitarist/singer/whatever doesn't necessarily equip you to write something as marvelous as 'Up on the Roof' or a raft of other written to order gems.

Speechless! Genuinely speechless. I just watched all five parts. I seriously need to find a way of downloading it. This CANNOT be lost. "Fat lads on steroids", "Air Max and bikinis" I had no idea! I'm going to cook some dinner now, bring it upstairs and I'm gonna watch it again. I'm in a daze.

I just watched all of that and then did a search for donk on here.

Just 24 hours ago I was blissfully unaware of this whole scene. Worst youth subculture of the last 15 years? Quite possibly.

I'm not that aware of the current state of UK youth sociodemographics, but isn't this something that chavs listen to?

chavs on steroids.
also 14-15 year old boys and girls (growing up to become chavs)

it has to be seen to believe it... burnley's buzzin'.

"pre-chav music"

pre, present and post
(doesn't surprise me glice enjoys it either, given his happy hardcore leanings)

anyway, glad i don't live there.

donk died for somebody's sins, but not mine.

if I were still a DJ, I would be forced to change my name to Donk E-Kong.

although I haven't had a chance to visit links and hear for myself, I won't be shocked to learn that donk was heavily influenced by wonky.

in fact, wonky-donk could very well be the NEXT BIG THING (I'll be registering Wonky Kong too, just in case).

as demonrail said, that's just ubelievable.
a fine crafted mixture of everything wrong about teenage people. drugs, cheesy dumb music, stupid aggresive steroid-soaked assholes, violence ... and tracksuits.

tracksuits are a cross generational thing, aren't they? shared by both chavs on the donk scene and grandpas in florida.

woah
I had never heard of this donk scene before checking this thread, and I must say I'm pretty amazed. Worst thing is, "Put A Donk On It" isn't even the worst thing to come out of this - try checking Chemical Crew's "What's A Donk", it's even worse.
Could it be the english equivalent for french's tecktonik?

these guys sure put on a great live show. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aLUx...eature=related

Donk was a hoax. It never actually existed. That doc Glice linked was a spoof, put together by vice magazine and 'Blackout Crew', who are really the electronica outfit Black Dog.

I saw the donkumentary last night - bloody hell, it was pretty mental. Funny that the music was in a way a background to the people in the scene, and quite depressing to see how run down parts of Bolton, Burnley and Wigan are.

It's stuff like this that makes me think that the youth in Britain deserve better.

This whole catastrophe would be redeemed in my eyes if this Friday Newsnight review holds a round table discussion on it, Paul Morley crossing and uncrossing his legs, internally trying to work out if the fact he thinks its shit means he's totally sold out his belief in "art" whilst externally throwing a few scraps of "Any nascent scene requires imitators, but in the future we may look back upon this as a golden time for British youth culture", secretly thinking "Its just not Unknown Pleasures is it", and looking plaintively to Martha Karney in the hope she'll step in and save him. Let this shit die.

You know how to deserve your rep.

I should add, Glice gave me a RAW neg-rep in the initial run of this thread calling my conclusions "myopic nonsense". Whilst i respect everyones opinions, if you side with he and not I, you are as to Glice as a sponge is to Diarrhea

Fuckhattery.

Paul Morley needs a slap. Preferable by some sort of moveable mountain.

you are the Paul Morley of this thread, it must be said

There's no need for that language sunshine. No need at all.

Just to be clear on this, if memory serves this was because you tried to deny it was a subculture. Which is horseshit that barely deserves negating.

The thing that fascinates me about Donk, and Scouse, Bassline, Hardcore or its european cousins (I'm well aware it stems partially from Dutch> German gabber and British Acid/Jungle) is how it manages to be entirely massive without ever particularly troubling the mainstream, or popular consciousness. I've not ventured into a Donk night yet (as I'm in the South), but everyone I know who's into Hardcore comes from the massively unfashionable edges of society, be it shit-hole council estates or backwash parochial nowhere'sville.

This is probably difficult for all of you witty, urbane city-dwellers to grasp, but there's something massively satisfying about going to a night with the express intention of simply having a laugh. I may be looking in the wrong parts of the world, but my experience of a lot of guitar-based scenes is that if the intention is to just go out and have a good time and chat to some people, it's often too reserved for that to actually happen. Some of you seem to treat the so-called 'chavs' as some entirely alien culture, but I've always found Happy Hardcore nights to be full of genuinely enthusiastic, chatty and friendly people. I quite often go out to meat-factory house nights, and while the music mostly leaves me cold, I'm guaranteed to have a good time and a good natter to a few people. The uniform of a house night (burberry caps, Ben Sherman/ Fred Perrys) is hardly more restrictive than the standard fucked blue jeans, Converse and band t-shirt, is it?

Also, for what it's worth, the reason I haven't started relative thread for Scouse, Bassline, Speedcore, Jumpstyle, Gabber etc is because, musically, they don't interest me. I can deal with people not liking Donk - it's a ridiculous form and should be treated (and enjoyed!) as such - but there's a definitely whiff of piss-stained indie elitism to this thread which is just crap.

stop being so self-pitying Glice

I have numerous good friends who were doing the happy hardcore thing 5 odd years ago, and even though i didnt do it myself i know why they did it, they had a good time and they didnt call me a "snob" because i didnt like it. I happen to have a Ben Sherman, Fred Perry Polo and a knackered old pair of Reebok classics in the back of my wardrobe, but i guess thats only collateral in the war against SNOOOOOOOOBS

blackout crew are like the hi-fi kersal massive.

Nobody wins in the war of shouting 'snob' the loudest, you're right. What's your point otherwise?