There are 195 countries in the world. It's only the ones involved in espionage and undercover spy operations that have hypocritically condemned Israel. No doubt because they all have a guilty conscience.

I dunno, I agree with the fact that there are 195 countries in the world (taiwan), but I think many of them have no idea of what's going on in other places of the world, and some have so little international "weight" that googlin' their names something else comes up..
Like Lichtenstein.

I'm not sure what sort of 'get out of jail free card' Israel has with the USA, but it need to be withdrawn pronto. These fuckers are out of control.

think about how many jewish (or better said, pro-israël') people there are in the usa.

think about how screwed every single president of the usa would be if this community turned against him for reacting against israel's actions.

That's a lame excuse. America is always pissing people off. There's a large Muslim population in the US, probably larger than the Jewish population. Didn't stop them from invading Iraq or Afghanistan.

The American government, who seem to be the only authority that Israel recognises outside its own government, need to grow some balls, tell Israel that killing civilians on the high seas is unacceptable, and cut off military and economic aid.

Israel is a fucking 'rogue nation' that thinks it can do what it likes to it's neighbours in order to further its expansionist goals.

There has to be a point when the world says 'ENOUGH'!!!

If dropping white phosphorous on Palestinian schoolchildren wasn't the tipping point, then murdering foreign nationals in an act of piracy should be. If that's not, then what the fuck will be? It can't be allowed to continue.

i don't agree with this either, and it's true that there's a large muslim community in america, but it's a fact that the jewish community is quite a bit more powerful in business and politics.

So what?
The USA could and should put a stop to Israel's excesses. Not to do so is aiding and abetting Israel's growing list of crimes against humanity.

Now that Israel has shown that it is quite willing and capable of attacking it's last Muslim ally in the region, it makes you wonder which 'friendly' nation it will attack next.

Those ships in the aid flotilla were carrying passenges from all over the world, not just Turkey. Would the American government be quite as ready to defend Israel if American nationals had been killed?

You know what, they probably would.

No way no how the USA upsets Israel. It has nothing to do with President being screwed by anti-Israel sentiment. Look where Israel is located, if it comes down to a large scale war in the Mideast we have a strong hold in Israel where we can reach out and attack all them oil rich countries from.

Plus Israel has atomic power. They probably have more stored WMD than all those other nations in the Mideast combined.

No way USA risk loosing the Ally they have in Israel. No way they give up that land.

I saw a thing a year or so ago that was talking about Israel's plan to attack Iran's nuclear development program through the use of bunker busters on known underground facilities, and that they're going to do it at some point, with or without British/US cooperation.

A friend of mine killed himself in Afghanistan.

But I think it would be far worse to be geographically in the middle of it, and have everyone I know having gone through mandatory military service and have yet even more people I know have to die for the terroristic notions of my government.

How would you know?

Thanks for the compliment but it wasn't ufos. My favorite part of this is how the Israeli's commandos needed to shoot because while they were invading and attacking ships in international waters they had to defend themselves against people on the boats they were attacking. You see, they attack a ship but they are defending themselves.

The corporate media keeps repeating it. Like the parrots they are.

And Hamas are nazi scum. No sympathy there.

Wait, time-out.




Israel is a real place? I thought everyone was always just talking about the plot progression of a long-running (albeit shitty) soap opera.

I didn't intend to disparage you, but you do come up with some doozies.... I know that you don't believe in UFO's (that aren't being controlled by CIA-China).

that said, I still often agree with you, or at least yr intentions.

and yes, Hamas are no better than "the other side".

----

any sane person who does not agree with Hamas, or violence in particular, should see how Israel's current actions are flying the face of rationality or any intention for true peace.

why pick a side when both are very wrong??

"They" always reuse old sets. I believe that Israel is being filmed in the same location as Capricorn One.

you know the saying, "there are no permanent enemies or permanent allies, only permanent interests".

considered what happened with turkey and conflicting interests between having a powerful neighbor on their side and an angry muslim populace within. turkey still has nato, but israel has no friends nearby.

all that it takes for the usa-israel alliance to break is for israel to become such a burden on the united states that we're willing to let go of it. of course there's AIPAC, and pro-israel interests have HUGE sway in american politics, to a level that doesn't exist in another country, but that's not something that couldn't be overcome by public outrage led by isolationist groups (ron paul et. al.)

netanyahu is a fucking oaf and a bully and a demagogue who was behind the murder of yitzak rabin, and now he's taking his country into the fascist hellhole that gives him wet dreams every night.

he needs to be kicked out of power, but with the disgraceful support of the labor party betraying itself, plus the right-wing immigrant party, he'll continue pushing palestinians to radicalize while at the same time claiming that it's such a radicalization that forces him to continue the systematic oppresion of palestinians. at the same time, the so-called "new-antisemitism" continues on the rise as israel is equated with apartheid south-africa or even genocidal nazism-- which is wrong--south africa is a better comparison.

however, israel is NOT that netanyahu swine, but labor and the left have been ineffectual and now labor cozyied up to him to form a coalition government. kadima remains as the opposition and, even though they were founded by the swine ariel sharon, this hapened at the time when sharon had seen the need to forge peace with the palestinians. then, conveniently, he had a stroke, just like rabin was killed on the eve of peace.

anyway, about 49% of the population support netanyahu-- that leaves another 51% who oppose him but can't get rid of him at the moment. so let's not be so quick to condemn a whole country for its pigheaded leaders.

nevertheless, no alliances are permanent, etc etc.

i forget where i was going with this, but it's time for breakfast anyway.

I phoned some people and they were clueless.

THE FIRST BRAVE HEROES HAVE BEEN RELEASED FROM THE ISRAELI BEERSHIVA PRISON AND SENT TO ATHENS, IN GREECE .. BELOW IS THE TRUTH ABOUT WHAT REALLY HAPPENED .. ABOUT THE BRUTAL ATTACK BY ISRAEL ON AN UNARMED HUMANITARIAN AID CONVOY .. IT IS TRULY SHOCKING .. PLEASE SPREAD THE TRUTH
Gaza aid flotilla activists talk of beatings, electric shocks

By Elena Becatoros, Suzan Fraser, The Associated Press

Last Updated: June 1, 2010 7:02am


ATHENS — Activists returning to Europe after Israeli forces raided their aid flotilla said Tuesday that the commandos had beaten passengers and used electric shocks during the assault.

Six Greeks and several others, including a Turkish woman and her 1-year-old baby, were released Tuesday, but Israel has barred access to hundreds of others seized during the raid that killed at least nine people and wounded dozens early Monday.

Most of those killed were aboard the Turkish-flagged Mavi Marmara, and there have been conflicting accounts of what happened during the assault.

Turkish activist Nilufer Cetin, who had hidden with her baby in her cabin’s bathroom aboard the Mavi Marmara, told reporters she believed there were 11 dead.

“The ship turned into a lake of blood,” Cetin told reporters in Istanbul, having returned after Israeli officials warned that jail would be too harsh for her child.

“We were aware of the possible danger” in joining the trip, she said. “But there are thousands of babies in Gaza. If we had reached Gaza we would have played with them and taken them food.”

She said Israeli vessels “harassed” the flotilla for two hours starting around 10 p.m. Sunday, and returned at around 4 a.m. Monday, fired warning shots and told the ships to turn back.

“When the Mavi Marmara continued on its course the harassment turned into an attack. They used smoke bombs followed by gas canisters. They started to descend onto the ship with helicopters,” she said, calling the clashes that then erupted “extremely bad and brutal.”

“I was one of the first victims to be released because I had a child,” she told reporters, but “they confiscated everything, our telephones, laptops are all gone.” Her husband — the ship’s engineer — was still being held by Israeli authorities.

Some 400 Turkish activists were on the six-ship flotilla, along with more than 30 Greeks and people of some 20 other nations including Germany, the U.S. and Russia.

The ships had been trying to break the three-year blockade of Gaza to deliver humanitarian aid, the activists said.

“Suddenly from everywhere we saw inflatables coming at us, and within seconds fully equipped commandos came up on the boat,” said Greek activist Dimitris Gielalis, who had been aboard the Sfendoni. He was among six Greeks returned home Tuesday.

“They came up and used plastic bullets, we had beatings, we had electric shocks, any method we can think of, they used,” he said.

He said the boat’s captain was beaten for refusing to leave the wheel, and had sustained non-life-threatening injuries, while a cameraman filming the raid was hit with a rifle butt in the eye,“ he said. “Of course we weren’t prepared for a situation of war.“

The returning Greeks said those still in custody were refusing to sign papers demanded by Israeli authorities.

“During their interrogation, many of them were badly beaten in front of us,” said Aris Papadokostopoulos, who was aboard the Free Mediterranean travelling behind the Turkish ship and carrying mainly Greek and Swedish activists.

Papadokostopoulos said the flotilla was about 80 miles (130 kilometres) off Gaza when the raid occurred around 4 a.m. Monday.

“The Turkish ship was in front of us ... on which there was a terrible raid from the air and from the sea and from everywhere, with shooting,” he said.

Aboard the other boats, he said, commandos beat activists, but nobody was gravely injured. He said no one put up resistance on the Free Mediterranean, which was carrying a cargo of wheelchairs, building material and medical and pharmaceutical aid.

“Some people were hit by clubs and electric shocks,” he said.

Crew member Mihalis Grigoropoulos said he was on the bridge of the Free Mediterranean and heard shooting coming from the Turkish ship.

Several people who tried to stop the Israeli forces from getting to the bridge were hit by electric shocks and plastic bullets, he said. “We didn’t’ resist at all. Even if we had wanted to, what could we do?”

Civil engineer Thanassis Petrogiannis said he had joined the flotilla to provide help in rebuilding destroyed Palestinian homes.

He said that, while in Israeli custody, authorities had demanded he sign a paper written in Hebrew. He refused, and was eventually given another document that he signed.

“Everyone who didn’t accept to sign is in jail,” he said.

Grigoropoulos, the crew member, and Gielalis said they were not asked to sign anything, though their cellphones, cameras and clothes were confiscated before they were expelled.

While the six Greeks “are in good health,” Foreign Ministry Spokesman Grigoris Delavekouras said Greece was demanding the others still in custody be repatriated as soon as possible.

“Israel bears responsibility for their safety. So it must contribute so they can return quickly to Greece,” he said.

Turkey said it was sending three ambulance planes to Israel to pick up 20 more Turkish activists injured in the operation.

Three Turkish Airlines planes were on standby waiting to fly back other activists, the prime minister’s office said.


http://bsnorrell.blogspot.com/2010/0...-shock-on.html

It's like they're reading from a script. What a load of biased bullshit.

yawn.

Typical of a deluded Marxist, can't stay awake reading proper grown-up debate :rolleyes:

CLUSTERFUCK

Just in case this might have been directed toward any of my comments.
When I use the word Israel I mean the State of Israel - its government and governmental institutions. Any disparaging remarks were aimed at the vicious idiots running the country, not the ordinary Israeli people.

cool, everyone knows they're controlled by vampire nazis who live in the hollow earth at the North Pole

I'm just ready to argue anonymously with anonymous people at every moment!

no, the Israeli pirates shouldn't have illegally boarded the vessel in the first place, and if some Israeli commandos tried to illegally enter my house or my boat, I'd probably get shot defending myself against those assholes too.. after all, think about, lets keep it simple, if the Israelis already broke international law by taking the vessels captives, what would make the protesters believe they were safe? After all, the Israelis ended up opening fire and killing several, so are not the protesters justified in their reactions to the Israelis? Why should they have automatically trusted the Israeli military simply because of a veil of legitimacy? Even legitimate governments, shit especially legitimate governments often kill people without cause, and I would have done the EXACT same thing as the protesters, as I would have honestly and openly feared for my life the SECOND those commandos stepped on board. At that moment, all bets are off and Israel was clearly the aggressor.


yes, but if the commandos had no business doing so, and we therefore completely untrustworthy after breaking several international laws, why should the protesters be labeled stupid, I think courageous is more apt description. Just like black folks shouldn't have ever stepped up against Jim Crowe out of common sense, or perhaps we should have left Hitler alone eh?

fucking exactly.

"Free thinkers are dangerous."


"I'd go against a tank with a shank for my dreams, and that is my fucking word."

fucking exactly.
"too all those weeping pirates, whoa your words shall fall on deaf ears now.."




It is actually, but people like you are the biggest mind fucks of all, and how America got itself into those wars in the first place.

American jews aren't the problem, its the warmonger american christian zionist lobbyist interest that are the problem.. There are more of these backwards, ignorant and hateful fucks in the world than there are citizens in Israel.


maybe they should have stayed off the ship? If I break into your house, and you attack me, it does not give me the right to kill you, more than likely it means I should leave your house. While I had sympathy for the burglar who was shot dead in a backyard in texas by an elderly man who shot him in the back as he was running away, this is far different scenario.

I just wanted to highlight this bit. People will very often mention the Jewish influence on America - which is not insignificant - but there are plenty of hatstand Christians doing the rounds that actually believe that they can force the second-coming by control of the Holy Land. And the madder sorts of Christianity seem to be a very major force in the States.

There is a minimal jewish interest in America, the lion's share of pro-Israel lobbyists and activists are entirely in the Christian category, folks who believe it is their God-given duty to support Israel and especially Zionism. These pseudo-Christians (ironic as Christianity has traditionally been even violently at odds with Jews) are fanatically zionists, radically opposed to any compromise, and completely unrealistic and uninformed about the actual realities of Israel and its neighbors. Most hardcore, rightist Zionists from the Israeli government are tame puppies compared to the beliefs proposed, paid for and lobbyed by this silly americans :(

that, unfortunately, is true

This analogy is wrong, a more correct analogy would be the burgler started shooting at the people while they were asleep, broke into the house, and then shot the residents who began defending themselves, but then the police arrested the residents and blame the situation on them; after all, the burgler was simply defending himself. Oh, and the US won't take a position on this.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
quote:
It’s highly unlikely that those on board the ship will be able to discuss what took place anytime soon – because 487 of them have been arrested and imprisoned in Israel, with 48 others being held at Ben Gurion international airport awaiting deportation.
“Israel is holding the detainees under severe media censorship and actually cut off from the outside world, ensuring no contradiction of its version of Monday’s events,” reports Press TV.

what is interesting is the dichotomy this presents. Eastern Christians tend to be virulently anti-Zionism, and have had a rather positive relationship with muslim powers since the Crusades (after all, the Westerners real motivation was to seize and dominate Constantinople and the Balkans, not jerusalem). Further, Eastern Christians, aside from the past 30 odd years, have had the largest and most significant presence both socially and politically in Palestine area for a long long time. In Orthodox, we are opposed to Israel, and we are not brainwashed into believing that this pseudo-Israel is somehow the same Israelites of the bible, and we do not necessarily believe that this is some kind of messianic fullfilment of prophecy, rather we call it as we see it, bullshit politicks.

just in the news: repuke representative eric cantor demands that obama "stands up for israel"

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2010/06/cantor_to_obama_stand_up_for_i.html?hpid=opinionsb ox1

similarly, ny representative anthony weiner defends the attack on the flotilla

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plu...ly_defend.html

one republican, one democrat.

the israel lobby is on overdrive today

i'm waiting for charles krauthammer to start yapping on the subject

oh, and now egypt opened the border with gaza

bibi netanyahu: utter dumbfuck who shoots himself in the ass

ps- only 4 turks dead after all. other 20 wounded. still, clusterfuck.

I been praying for that for so fucking long, unfortunately we'll see how long it takes for Egypt to again cave to the pressure of Israeli fighter jets :/

hilarious

speaking of dumbfuck moves, how does air conditioning fluid end up in the drinking water pipes?

dateline June 1
About 80 kids from a Queens elementary school had to be bused to local hospitals yesterday [YESTERDAY WAS MEMORIAL DAY NO SCHOOL] after drinking water tainted with chemicals from the school’s air conditioning units.
Officials said kids from PS 20 in Flushing started complaining about stomach aches after drinking from school water fountains. At least two kids reported vomitting.
Department of Education spokeswoman Marge Feinberg said a contractor had been called into the school earlier in the day to make repairs to the air conditioning system and that some chemicals may have gotten into the water supply.
She said the school "immediately shut off the water and provided students with bottled water."
Stricken children were put on city buses, accompanied by EMTs and school staff, and taken to hospitals for observation. By late afternoon, 20 had been treated and released, fire officials said.
Parents were called and notes have been sent home, Feinberg said.

i have no idea but i'd put that in another thread. not that i'm a board cop or anything (or a Federal Board Inspector), but it's kind of random for it to appear here.

I'm sure that the american christian zionists would love for nobody to know who's behind the wheel. they've been trying to stack the cards in favor of prophecy since the very fucking beginning.

not too long ago, a group from colorado packed up, moved to israel and was subsequently caught with a large cache of weapons and detailed plans to blow up the temple mount (the final hurdle between now and armageddon).

THOSE are the people that bear watching, not "american jews".

there's such a deep strain of antisemitism in america that there's NO FUCKING WAY that the "jewish lobby" has as great of an impact as is always attributed (but it's awefully easy to throw out "omg the jews control everything).

CHRISTIAN FUCKING ZIONISTS, PEOPLE.

KNOW YR ENEMY.

shhh..


Freemasons run the country..