no.

ok.

Ok,back on the topic here.The quote above is a very interesting one because it implies that you need to have a certain knowledge as to how sound sounds like as well as how it sounds in its many forms.Are you familiar with so called 'soundwalks' and where is the quote from,if you don't mind me asking?

exactly, there are plenty of people who wank around and then release but its really powerful when you listen to what you make, obsess over it and make it perfect.

its a quote from chris goudreau, who records as the sickness.

soundwalk?

the reason i play noise is because most noise out there is utter bland crap.

i do think noise is a very purely understood genre (if it is, or branch of music perhaps) mostly by it's own creators. most people who are in noise bands don't listen to noise or if they do, it's just the big obvious names, how many of these people know of solmania? hell, how many have heard early throbbing gristle or early swans? even masonna hardly gets a mention. most people are like "merzbow, wolf eyes and..." sometimes hair police but mostly boredoms (the most cultured of the bunch mention hanatarsh), which leads to the boredoms not being noise artists but a chaotic rock band; sure, they can be taken as a stapping stone band to get into the really harsh stuff but the boredoms are not noise and yet they are the most mentioned "noise" band along with masami and w.e. and because people don't really listen to noise because it's easier and cheaper to make than to follow and support you get bands that are supposed to be "extreme" and crazy like 16 bitch pile up who are unimaginative, derivative and, the worst offense a noise artist can commit, bland.

even more, noise artists have started to settle and enjoy the spoils of it's new found popularity, which just means a hell of a lot of people adopting the name to make fast music in limited edition runs. merzbow has been mellowing out and playing thru the motions. savage and scott v mention noise peaked in the early nineties for them which might have more to do with the quality of the music made and the uniqueness of it all, unlike today which has to do with everything except the music.

scott v is right, if a noise artist isn't prolific then people don't take them seriously, unless you are already a legend and pioneer from back in the day. i know people who love doing eps and albums every week in order to exist; i blame merzbow for that.

the reason noise bands, regardless of their quality, have taken root and have been multiplying is because of the underground support system. in orther for a new noise artist to release his/her 784 hours of laptop garbage, they need a label or someone willing to put out the music, more than exclusively releasing it themselves because of the ridiculous amount of music they produce; also, they need other, liked minded bands to play with, release splits with, release on each other's labels, etc. it's not a listener's genre anymore, it's not even about the music.

noise is the new garage, easy to produce, anyone can do it.

i do believe, though, that because there's so much stuff, there's great stuff bound to come out, and the challenge is to find it, even if it might be very frustrating to go thru all the bullshit.

as for me, i do noise because i like listening to it; i have done 2 eps as I/C/O/C and one is in the making, and i have not released any of those yet; that's why it's probably never going to go anywhere.

Soundwalks are generally recordings made by sound artists(or as some people refer to them,architects)who do just that:walk a certain path and record the whole thing(in my experience of listening to such recordings there is quite a bit of source material manipulation,mind).They can be incredibly stimulating experiences when you get to know a little more about the turn you've taken in your walk and(knowing a bit of the history of the place you are walking around in)the often dramatic changes that such envoirements have endured over the years.

5. Remember, you are still making music. Noise and experimental music can be very free-form, and annihilate the barriers and conventions of traditional music. That doesn't mean you should simply hold your guitar into an amplifier for an hour and call if music. And if you do, Lou Reed will have done it already, and will have done it better. Your music still needs a structure and purpose. Dynamics and variation are good. I will repeat that again. DYNAMICS AND VARIATION ARE GOOD. Whatever your first effort was, it did not have enough dynamics, variation, or balance, do it again at least twice.



^Or enough times to make you realize when it's got a place that's going to last and an audience that is going to last too.Didn't know this guy but most of this stuff sounds rather stimulating on many levels.

whaaaat? man, youve gotta be on crack.

It can't for very obvious reasons.

ouch... my band opened for 16 bitch pile up last year and eventhough they weren't loud they still were interesting because eventhough they can be derivative they actually did something within a reasonable time frame that held alot of people's interest (it was a 15 minute set)... and they did it without being extremely loud.

besides i must say they were really cool and nice women, they really dug us, we were quite loud and aggressive.. i've been finding that with about 1/2 of shows we've done the main act who follows us is tentative and apprehensive of the situation because its like we've harnassed all the momentum from a show into our set, nothing to brag about because alot of times in these situations i feel bad about for the "headlining" act. sometimes you come away with playing a great set, others are real bummers... little middle ground especially in noise music. i must admit that performing this form of music is alot more gratifying than listening to it, thats if you can enjoy yourself (suprisingly enough i know alot of peopel who just can't and won't enjoy themselves no matter what they are doing)... I think of all people Coco made a similar quote in the recent article/interview on SY in the recent Filter mag.

though, i doubt that we will blow the doors off this thursday when we open for the Flying Luttenbachers... Weasel Walter is a sick dude.

Flying Luttenbachers

Why the above name sounds familiar?

i never doubted they were nice people; i just think that when you are willing to jump on the pool known as noise, there is a certain things you have to follow, one of them being the loudness.

i'm probably judging them too harshly and need to stop the preconception that what i'm hearing is supposed to be noise. maybe is they said they play droning no wave...that's why i hate labelling music.

and with all due respect, you are going to get your asses handed to you when you open for the luttens

about the recording tecniques savage clone mentioned:

i do think a a difficult, noisy recording can actually add a lot to the music, as long as it doesn't go against the mood the music is going for. for example, i still haven't gotten into the new celtic frost album because the production is too clear and, to me, what made the frost special was that they could work the fucked up, lo-fi sound to their advantage and now they sound like any third rate doom band coming out today, the songs might not be bad but the production is so wrong, i can't really hear the songs. another example of poor production values working in favor of the music is the goslings.

personally i think noise is probably the hardest style of music to play well if the ratio of shite to goodness is anything to go by.

there are a handful of noise musicians who've made music that really has impressed and moved me, but most of it, even the majority of popular/scene leader stuff is so completely rubbish.
and the never ending glut of material is going to kill the whole thing off, i'm sick of wasting time listening to whatever knocked-out-in-20-minutes shite is passed off as exciting. wolf eyes are one of the best live acts i've ever seen, and i've seen a lot of bands, but if they could be bothered making recording that in some way reflected the energy of their live shows, or at least sounded like they'd put some thought and consideration in to the proceedings they might make a record worth listening to, instead of the dullness of slicer/burned mind/dead hills/mugger/etc.
in 5 years lets see how many of the groups releasing a new tape every month are anywhere to be seen.

i'm sorry golden child, you can quote whatever worthy and earnest person you like, or come up with some crazed concept for your music, but it doesn't mean a thing when faced with the barrage of boredom, thoughtlessness & diletanttism that is the majority of noise.

i TOTALLY agree, if you would have read any of my posts they were supporting the fact that people need to be more thoughout with their audio offerings and not just fart on a tape and make 50 copies.

The thing is,with a lot of so called noise musicians the level of sound or compositional skills is next to zero.Anger alone doesn't take you anywhere and,besides,there are millions of angry musicians out there but very few who can channel that anger into a genuinely creative body of work.

The thing is, noise is sort of the new punk. You don't necesarilly need sound or compositional skills to make noise, just enough enthusiasm, conviction and intuitivity to explore sound for sound's sake. Think of the hundreds of shitty punk bands that emerged in the 70s. Did they care they were shitty? Hell, they were probably too drunk and having too much fun to give two fucks. The beauty of noise music and improvisation is that it is a DIY scene open to outsiders with no need for anyone to flex their musical virtuoso muscle. It is the logical conclusion to punk rock after that genre was co-opted by corporate pimps.

also, refer to my sig for more on "noise"

Noise is something new?what age are you sonny?

22, sir

That explains.

More noise, less bitching.

Insightful that,trasher.

I love Whitehouse, think Throbbing Gristle kind of suck though... but even refeing to my New Blockaders sig, you should be able to tell I am aware of the history of noise within popular music (as opposed to earlier experimentation within classical avant-garde composition)
The point is, in the early days, noise was nowhere near as popular as it is now. There was no internet, no Volcanic Tongue, no Ecstatic Peace website with videos...
The fact that you question the merit of releasing another noise record indicates that you have observed the current avalanche of noise recordings and the presence of a vast underground network that is slowly emerging to the surface... case in point, Wolf Eyes, who have toured the states with Sonic Youth and put out a record on Sub Pop.. a feat that a noise band in the early 80s could never have concieved of... Noise in the 80s was an alternative to punk and was very marginalised... today, noise is becoming a replacement to punk and is reaching more and more mainstream coverage.. (although whether it will gain any sort of popularity is another matter)..

Whorefrost:
I love Whitehouse, think Throbbing Gristle kind of suck though... but even refeing to my New Blockaders sig, you should be able to tell I am aware of the history of noise within popular music (as opposed to earlier experimentation within classical avant-garde composition)

Porkmarras:
I've never questioned this.After all,it is easier to purchase music today that it certainly was,say,10/15 years ago.It can only be a good thing.

Well, Throbbing Gristle were able to make a living without day jobs doing what they did at a time when it was far more confrontational and far less accessible, but I don't really think if them as a "noise band" at all (though they explored it for sure). I doubt even the most successful of today's "noise bands" can say that.

whorefrost:
The point is, in the early days, noise was nowhere near as popular as it is now. There was no internet, no Volcanic Tongue, no Ecstatic Peace website with videos...
The fact that you question the merit of releasing another noise record indicates that you have observed the current avalanche of noise recordings and the presence of a vast underground network that is slowly emerging to the surface... case in point, Wolf Eyes, who have toured the states with Sonic Youth and put out a record on Sub Pop.. a feat that a noise band in the early 80s could never have concieved of...


porkmarras:True,but where does this aply to certain rules of quality control that are inherent to most,erm,music scenes?See what happened to the hundreds punk bands that polluted the punk scene back in the day and remain(for the most part rightly)forgotten by most.Accessabilty to music making is not necessarily a good thing and that's why punk means less to me to me than probably it means to you(if i got you right).

Throbbing Gristle were losely thinking a noise band.They had disparate elements to their sound to just pin them down to a specific category.A difficult task to achieve for most bands that one.

No, I agree, that most punk bands remain quite rightly forgotten.. it was a fad, much as noise could be perceived to be now.. i don't necessarilly see why this renders it any less artistically valid... I think bands like Wolf Eyes who release a new limited CD-R each week are kind of pursuing a perverse hobby as opposed to pursuing any sort of standard musical career... it is more like an on-going art project, mimicking philosphies of industrial production, much like Throbbing Gristle were intersted in doing as I understand... I'm not a huge fan of punk myself, had a brief phase a few years ago... regarding accessability to music, well I play in a noise band myself and I think the quote about noise "being more fun to play than to listen to" definitely applies a lot of the time... But there are still gems appearing all the time, recordings and live actions by noise bands that are completely exhilarating... due to the prolific nature of noise artists, these gems can be harder to find...

In summing up, I would say that a lot of noise is throwaway, tedious, self-indulgent... but in a way, that's kind of the point...

yeah but punks in the 70s were starting from again from scratch more or less, noise musicians today are part of a tradition that includes crazed masterpieces already like merzbow's rainbow electronics, for example. so when the bar has already been raised to a certain level people should put more effort and consideration, and most of all self-editing into what they are doing.
i guess one of the problems with nosie is that it is very difficult to find out about, and hear older noise music, seeing as that stuff was released in such minute quantities, and when but mostly if that stuff gets reissued it seems to be on high priced reissues, or part of boxsets or whatever, and in equally minute runs.
maybe that is the fate of noise, a style that will always be victim to it's own obscurity.

anyway golden child, ultimately listening to what guys like him have to say isn't going to help you, if you're talented you will make good music, and if you aren't no ammount of reading will help you get better. i think one of the problems with noise also is that it attracts a far higher ratio of talentless individuals that other styles of music. and also due to the lack of apparent technical focus in noise, nobody is encouraged to try and master their instrument, they just swap to a new one when they tire of/run out of ideas with whatever they are playing. but if you look at long standing noise musicians, like borbetomagus for example, or jojo hiroshige, those guys have been playing the same instruments for 25 years, and they're making better music than almost any of the new crop of noise groups.

Wolf eyes are a case in point.I enjoyed greatly listening to their music both live and on record(live they are just something else though) because they play like people who are having wild fun while also being totally serious about what they do.I think that it is right to say these qualities are missing from the vast majority of so called 'noise makers'(and the same thing can be applied to most types of music for that matter).

whorefrost:In summing up, I would say that a lot of noise is throwaway, tedious, self-indulgent... but in a way, that's kind of the point...

porkmarras:the new blockaders made a whole 'music career' out of such a statement.See where it's taken them.

i fully concur... especially with the "keeping it real" attitude that seems to go along with it. would this also explain the reason that people are paying $90 on ebay for a cassette containing a crap recording like scott v described so accurately? are they the real noise fans "keeping it real"?

i have some sort of unwritten rule nowadays that i tend to buy just "proper" releases and skip buying cd-rs and what have you not. i occasionally break this rule at random when buying a cd-r at a gig or just sometimes when it's someone i'm really interested in (like fursaxa a while ago) but in case of for instance wolf eyes i won't have any of it until they release their next album on sub pop.

nobody is born talented.

But some latch onto talent at an early age.

fuck that, anyone can do anything they want whenever they want. they just have to have the motivation, dedication, and passion to do it, no matter if you are 10 or 100.

All things that can be spotted from childhood generally.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

that's complete bullshit, otherwise the world would be full of amazing artists, musicians, actors and sports players.
and by this i mean eveyone would be persuing their dreams rather than working at whatever dull job they have. of course, you can do anything you like, but only the talented people are going to be good, and they are born with the ability to be better than everyone else.

Exactly!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV_X1S7WYaI

The aim of art is to represent not the outward appearance of things, but their inward significance.

Aristotle