back to college: don't act naive. just correct your ways. i am not going to post a long list of things to show why i think i know what you think and behave in a certain way. i, a person who already knows why you behave in a certain way, doesn't need to tell you what you already know. you already know. you leave me alone now....please?

How noble of you, not posting a fictional "list" of things youve just made up.

1 - i am not gay

give me some time, i'll come up with the rest with a bit of imagination.

There ya go, thats the spirit.

And what exactly did you think soccer, basketball, and football games were exactly? ;)

But what if its true? What if the match-fixing scandals have crossed into the elite world of Greco-Roman wrestling?

soccer began as association football in the UK, competitions between rival futbol clubs to determine who was best.

American Football began as competitions between different small mining towns and the miners' football teams, to see who was best.

baketball was created by a man working for the YMCA, and the competitions began through the YMCA.

skateboarding "competitions" began as an offshoot of promotional tours. They were never intended to be true competition, because competition is actually antithetical to the skater/surfer life. The same goes for surfing "competitions." They are straight up bullshit. XGames is as anti-skating as it gets man.

Another stellar thread, guys.

Keep up the good work.

First the Tour de France, now.....this!

The Flying Squirrel maneuver!

I guess I'm just not enough into gay-fetishism to see the appeal.

Have you seen the women? The loser has to submit to a giant purple dong, for Pete's sake!

Broham, this isn't the 1850s or 1890s anymore, modern professional sports are EXACTLY what you accuse skateboarding competitions to be, glorified advertising campaigns for tickets, merchandise, and television ratings (i.e. advertising) ;)

Again, I am not supporting the fucking x-games, I supporting including x-games style events like skateboarding as snowboarding has already been included in the Olympics, especially considering that much like soccer today, so many street kids are street skating, and it would be nice if they could see their craft and sport as being professionally legitimate at an Olympic level. Further, I really don't buy into your analysis of skateboarding competitions in the first place, yes the sponsors and promoters had an economic agenda, but the individual skaters who competed were all about skating, and the fans and audience were all about skating. We watched these competitions to get inspired by what skaters were doing, what kinds of tricks and combinations they were coming up with, and where the bar had been respectably raised.

You remind me of a brother of mine who completely condemns the NFL as a sham, as commercially corrupted, and an ego contest, and yet he naively believes that somehow, some magical way that Division I NCAA sports are NOT as corrupt. What crock of shit! All spectator sports are tainted by commercialism, it is the nature of the beast. You either accept it and enjoy the show, or you don't. We watch movies and film, we know the production companies are greedy and crooked, we get that the incentive was primarily to make money and advertising, and yet we don't let it take away from our enjoyment of the art and craft of good film-making. We should honestly approach sports the same way..

It's not really the spirit, it's where I end and you start.

If I read your posts in italics yellow I love oh so much more.

It's like my bloody valentine.lol

You're right, I quite liked that yellow on blue background,
it was more aesthetically pleasing. Of course you know I'd prefer this readjustment ;)

WRESTLING IS GAY HA HAHA HA

I wouldn't say that, in fact (a) calling something gay as an insult is sooo 1990s and (b) many wrestlers might not like the insinuation and (c) I called it pseudo-homoerotic which is something differently entirely then derisively dismissing it as gay. Just because it is visibly homoerotic doesn't necessarily imply any kind of negative connotations, that is, unless folks internally harbor such pejorative imaginations of homosexuality in the first place ;)

Two men sweatily grappling and heaving is the text book definition of appearing homoerotic, after all, if we watch a man and a woman do exact thing, a room full of sixth graders wouldn't be able to contain all the snickering and hooting.

who cares what 6th graders think? Fuck middle school HARD

Whether folks want to admit it or not, perhaps the most formative human experiences of life happen at two and only two places in life:

The first is in Middle School yards across the world, and the second are in ICUs across the world. At Middle School we learn what life really is about, and in the ICU we find out what mortality truly means. Shout out to Bytor here, I'm going through it right now..

This is why the Fathers say the human mind doesn't have enough strength of character to live divorced from the human heart (soul).

Most Olympic athletes are amateurs. The Olympics is important to sports like wrestling precisely because there's almost no commercial interest in it. Even the sponsorship deals are minimal and I'll bet it costs more to put wrestling on at the olympics than they make back in ticket sales, merchandising, tv ratings, etc.

Yes and true, but that was more in the context of me and Rob's larger discussion about authenticity in sports from the match-fixing issues. By the way, if y'all don't think the Olympics are just another facet of the marketing system of spectator sports y'all is tripping. Explain all the sponsors ;)

I really hope I never turn as cynical and miserable as you.

You're hilarious. I love to watch hours and hours of sports every week, I just accept it for what it is and don't have any delusions or false interpretations of what it should or could be, in fact, I'm excited for the Heat-Thunder NBA tonight as they sabotage Valentine's Day for like 10,000,000 women! There will be 20,000,000 arms sulkingly crossed as so many boyfriends and husbands at the restaurant take 27 minutes to go to "the bathroom" when the game is on like every TV in the place and all the ladies hear their dudes yelling can high fiving ;)



Besides, it will take you a century to develop the capacity for optimistic nihilism which saturates my consciousness, it would kill like ten lesser such as yourself.

So every game, in every sport, for however long in history is fixed? Rubbish.

---


anyway re: the OP, NO to getting rid of wrestling just to please the fucking sponsors. the commercialization of the olympic games is a damn shame, and the opposite of what was originally intended when the games were "brought back" (so to speak) in 1896.

I wouldn't go that far, but the reality is that if even a small fraction of them blatantly are fixed or even just slightly altered, how can a spectator ever exactly know which is which and what is what? Besides of which, you missed the point. My discussion with Rob and demonrail were not strictly about match-fixing, but also on Rob's point about commercialism and marketing somehow having tarnished skateboarding and yet not other sports. Rob said that X-games is just a platform for marketing and merchandising and ticket sales. My retort which you naively assumed was cynical rather than pragmatic was that, duh, ALL SPORTS ARE JUST EVENTS ORGANIZED FOR MARKETING AND MERCHANDISING. What, does the NFL and NBA just have hundreds of games a year out of the goodness of their heart, for the love of the game? BULLSHIT. For the $8BILLION and $4.2BILLION a year respectively ;)

Is the Olympics somehow any different? I doubt that, because again, explain the absolute saturation of sponsors. I just call it as it is. For a few years I was completely jaded and disillusioned with sports for all the complaints that Rob has against the X-games, but then I realized fuck it, it is what it is and I can either enjoy it like other prefabricated human entertainment like music and literature or I can sulk.

The Olympics were designed as the premier competition of amateur athletes.
In a sport like Golf, the Olympics makes no sense. There are already 4-5 other tournaments that are bigger and more profitable and more important than the Olympics.

However, with sports such as Athletics, wrestling, swimming, etc., the pinnacle, the goal that every young amateur strives for, is to compete in the Olympic games.

Instead of amateurs (those who play for the love of it, by definition) we get millionaire tennis stars, and millionaire golfers.

It makes me SICK. One of the greatest athletes ever, and the GREATEST OLYMPIAN, Jim Thorpe, was stripped of his medals when they found that he had played minor league baseball for money. (Edit) His medals were reinstated in 1983, nearly 70 years after he earned them by whuppin ass.

There are now millionaires, professionals in every sense, competing in the Olympics, from basketball, to golf, to hockey, to tennis. PATHETIC!

It is what it is. There is no purity in commercialism. So again, we either accept it or we protest. From 2003-2008 I didn't watch any sports. Then Olympics, a Baltimore Ravens Revival, Two Laker Championship parades, the World Cup, and Lebron James going to the Heat for back-to-back NBA Finals appearances and his first ring ALL got me reinvigorated. By the way, did y'all know my fucking Baltimore Ravens won the blessed Superbowl!!

Even if it is all just prefabricated for advertising, marketing, and commercialism, I don't really give a shit because (a) I am definitely entertained and (b) I really enjoy the comradery and community which sports helps me, especially in a shallow as city like Los Angeles. Again, I am not cynical, just realistic. How can we turn a blind eye to the blatant commercialism that exists in sports? How can we ignore match-fixing which has been uncovered as prevalent? What about doping and PEDs? We can't. So we either dig our heads in the sand like I did in the Allen Iverson-Kobe-Tom Brady era of sports or we learn to live with it and have fun with no pretensions or illusions.

Young Siddhartha, come out of your father's palace, the world is beautiful enough even with its flaws, sports included.

right, but that doesn't mean it's all flaws either

anyway, i haven't watched the olympics in ages since i find the coverage unbearable

but the decision sucks for wrestlers all over the world

Agreed completely, if anything was entirely my argument to Rob about match-fixing. EVEN IF the entire thing is fabricated like a TV wrestling match, it could hardly negate the athleticism, craft, and skill of the athletes. If anything, part of me is even MORE impressed that folks could even try to fake it so convincingly as some of the thrown games in professional sports history. So while I would prefer an "honest" game tonight when it is Heat-Thunder, I would be just as entertained at Lebron dunking like crazy and KD shooting 23 foot jumpers anywhere on the floor. If it turned out that there was a dive or a fix, I wouldn't think less of Lebron or KD athletic abilities even if the sense of competition was decreased.

I think folks have misunderstood my premise. Match fixing, doping, and commercialism only taint our ideal of sports, but if we are more realistic we can still enjoy it for what is rather than what we wish it could or should be. When we apply some kind of almost quasi-religious status to "fairness" or "competition" we only fool ourselves with a kind of false sanctimoniousness which becomes almost idolatry. Religion isn't the opiate of the masses, Saint Augustine was right when he said it was the stadium, the race track, and the arena. When we put too much into sports, that is what it becomes, our Bael or Molten Calf.

when siddartha left his father's palace he did not see it was beautiful. he saw sickness, death, and pain. Because of this he saw the lie of his upbringing.

You have a bad argument suchfriends. Just because corruption exists does not mean that purity is no longer a goal to be strived for.

In sports I'd beg to differ. Do I prefer something at least respectable? Yes. Why do I like Lebron James? The guy married his sweetheart, takes care of his sons, never has any scandal in the media or the club, never been arrested, doesn't do drugs, never been accused of raping a woman in a hotel room, in fact during last years' NBA Finals he was reading BOOKS in the lockerroom to keep his head clear, and not because the publisher sent them as advertising, but because he was sincerely reading them. THAT is the kind of athlete I want as a role model for my nieces and nephews, for my god-children, and for all my students. NOT the kobe bryants who continually have a bad attitude as well as a bad lifestyle. NOT the Lance Armstrongs. NOT the A-Rods doing steroids and YET STILL managing to throw the MLB play-offs to get at chicks in the stands? REALLY?

Sports can have integrity, but lets be honest, the blatant commercialism and marketing which is the very nature of the beast of ANY and EVERY spectator sport at EVERY LEVEL of the game, is always going to be there. THAT is what Siddhartha discovered, the first noble truth that his father so desperately tried to shield him friend. LIFE IS SUFFERING. So is sports. Is it ALL fake? Hardly. Is it ALL commercialism? No. However we have to accept it all as what it is. We can't compartmentalize or build up any cognitive dissonance. That would only be naive hubris on our part as fans in the audience ;)

no, i didn't say that. the way i read the hesse quote/paraphrase is that just because there is fraud it doesn't mean it's all a complete fraud. what you're saying is that you enjoy theatre and that there is no competition-- but that's theatre/ballet, not sports. and while i like theatre i don't like ballet.

i think the same theme comes across in steppenwolf-- steppenwolf hates the radio but then he learns to appreciate that even if the radio isn't the symphony people can still hear the music through it. he doesn't say there is no music, he says the music remains even when damaged.

I didn't say it was always a complete fraud, not at all, I said that even if it were we could still appreciate the athleticism of it. Again, look at TV Wrestling. Are those dudes NOT athletes? Fucking shit 300LB beef-cakes "throwing" each other around with the precision of Gabby Douglass or The Nutcracker.

In sports of course there is competition, but I think in light of doping and match-fixing we should temper our expectations of just how much of every minute and play of every single game is honest. If that ruins it for people, fuck it, but I'm just the whistle-blower here, not the bad guy. Lance Armstrong is the bad guy. Sepp Blatter is the nemesis.Tim Donaghy is the villain. Bill Bellichek is the problem. And I haven't even brought up Mark McGwire or Barry Bonds yo ;)

^^ hey i amended my reply for further clarity on what i meant.

i imagined ages ago that armstrong was doping, ha ha ha. he jsut won too much, and with one nut only, he had to supplement testosterone and then who knows what else. i wasn't surprised when he fessed up.

i don't know about you but i grew up watching futbol where bad calls from the ref are part and parcel of the whole thing. there is no panel of judges there is no video decision there is none of that shit. so the imperfection is a given. always has been.

still that doesn't mean there's no competition or that everything is just a meaningless show. anyway, bla bla etc etc. hesse, man.

I think is this EXACTLY encapsulates my own feelings about sports, thank you for that!




I agree completely with both statements :)