See, a nice level-headed post devoid of words like 'moron', 'dolt', or 'chud'. SY's musical dynamics are what originally attracted me to the band in 1991. The music - combined with mysteriously poetic lyrics and themes - were/are an undeniable combination for me. Sonic Youth will always be my all-time favorite band. If I dismissed bands/art based on liberal leanings I wouldn't have ANYTHING to listen to. I like the punk aesthetic of deriving energy and inspiration from rebellion...fighting the machine...and/or rallying against "the man". However, in practice, I believe that capitalism and small government serve more people than socialism and big government. By no means is it perfect, but I don't know of a better model.

ah, yes... if we only had a president who could tweet like that!

maga chuds will be maga chuds

Zing!

Everything that trump isn't?

This is like one of those Giuliani interviews in which he voluntarily admitted he was guilty as accused.

You would have loved being next to me in the front row at a Lee Ranaldo show before the last mid-terms, in which, during "Thrown Over The Wall" and with all his brain, heart, soul, and voice, he shouted, "Let's flip these houses and kick these fuckers OUT!"

Please wear your MAGA hat if you go see any of them.

But twitter decides to take this action six months prior to the November election. From six months shy of Donald Trump winning the 2016 election and this is the week Twitter decides to fact check???

Why not worry about fact checking two or four years ago??

Could it be the upcoming election......are the liberals and Democrats are applying too much pressure?

Mail-in ballots are a legitimate policy dispute!

There are reasons every State doesn’t use mail-in ballots, there are reasons our Country refuses to fully use electronic voting......online voting......there are reasons why!

Just think of all the college students enrolled to vote in the state of their University, but are no longer living in that state because the Universities are closed and the students returned home. How do states know where to send those ballots?

In previous years when by bipartisan groups have been assembled to address these worries, it was the conclusion that absentee ballots posed the greatest threat for possible violations.

Then when you factor the possibility of the United States Postal Service going bankrupt this Summer......who would oversee the delivery of these ballots? Even if the USPS doesn’t go under, there are major delays and other legitimate reasons why mail-in ballots shouldn’t be considered!

So President Trump weighs in on a policy issue:

“ Republicans feel that Social Media Platforms totally silence conservatives voices. We will strongly regulate, or close them down, before we can ever allow this to happen. We saw what they attempted to do, and failed, in 2016. We can’t let a more sophisticated version of that....

....happen again. Just like we can’t let large scale Mail-In Ballots take root in our Country. It would be a free for all on cheating, forgery and the theft of Ballots. Whoever cheated the most would win. Likewise, Social Media. Clean up your act, NOW!!!!“

Trump tweet
“.@Twitter is now interfering in the 2020 Presidential Election. They are saying my statement on Mail-In Ballots, which will lead to massive corruption and fraud, is incorrect, based on fact-checking by Fake News CNN and the Amazon Washington Post....“


TRUMP tweet
“ There is NO WAY (ZERO!) that Mail-In Ballots will be anything less than substantially fraudulent. Mail boxes will be robbed, ballots will be forged & even illegally printed out & fraudulently signed. The Governor of California is sending Ballots to millions of people, anyone.....”
******notice how this tweet ends with a CNN link******


Zuckerberg knocks Twitter for fact-checking Trump, says private companies shouldn't be 'the arbiter of truth'

Meanwhile In California


TEXAS
Texas Supreme Court: Lack of immunity to COVID-19 alone not enough to vote by mail

Oregon, Washington, Colorado, Utah , and Hawaii conduct their elections solely by mail. Don't remember any voter fraud scandals coming out of there. Or even you ever moaning about them before Trump started panicking about them.

Oh my god, social media platforms influencing elections? Someone tell the President, surely he'll put a stop to fake news and manipulation of truth! :rolleyes:

Most of the rest of the world does postal voting, it works fine. In Australia, at least, it actually leans towards the conservative parties. Is this more of your whole 'but America's special, we need to be different to the remaining 95% of the world' shtick?

(And I'm honestly amused by the worry that 'whoever cheated more' would win.)

I clearly said there are reasons every state doesn’t use mail-in ballots. You respond with five states that do. Not one of these states are in the Top 10 of population, three of them aren’t in the Top 25 of population.

13. Washington
21. Colorado
27. Oregon
30. Utah
41. Hawaii

THANK YOU for making my point!!!

Ah, so Texas is so terribly mismanaged that it can't scale up the operation? Good to hear.

Or, alternatively...

Still not seeing a good reason to not have postal voting. Has there been evidence voter fraud in the past? Are there checks to make sure it can't happen? Of course.

I'd be more bothered about electronic voting than postal. But hey, what trump says you believe blindly, right?

Jerry Nadler slammed paper ballots as ‘extremely susceptible to fraud’ in 2004

“I just, as a very experienced practical politician from New York, feel constrained to observe that in my experience in New York, paper ballots are extremely susceptible to fraud,” the veteran House Democrat said. “And at least with the old clunky voting machines that we have in New York, the deliberate fraud is way down compared to paper.”

Wall Street Journal: “Absentee ballots remain the largest source of potential voter fraud.” (April 2020)

Paywall. Can you copy the whole piece so I can have a read.

Surely we can look at the evidence at how many countries allow mail voting to show that the chance of a rigged election through it is unlikely. Or is it that Trump is afraid of losing an election because of it?

And that makes it political? How so? Were both sides not equally enraged by an attack on U.S. citizens carried out by deranged religious zealots?

Don't tell me you're going to take the Hillary Clinton/Susan Rice Benghazi angle and say America brought it on itself. :confused:

Did think you'd say it isn't political. How can it not be? Especially given what followed it.

Dude Ranch Nurse-Bush
Paper Cup Exit-Bush
Do you believe in rapture-right wing evangelist
Society is a hole-Regan/Reganomics
Teenage riot-pretty obvious
Chapel Hill-Murder of peace activist Bob Sheldon. Suspected to be by the CIA.
Anti-orgasm-Kommune 1
Rain on tin-9/11 as already said
Youth against facism-Disagree with GeneticKiss on this. Clearly a simple anti-fascist song
Peace attack-Bush Iraq

Here's an explanation of what all of them are about. And a colouring book too.

Still not following...what exactly do you think Thurston's saying about 911, "especially given what followed it"?

We all hope
To signal kin
Days of gold
Now rain on tin
Gather round
Gather friends
Never fear
Never again


I agree with him and think most would. Is there a political debate to be had? If so, what are the sides?

Isn't that really just a goofy fantasy about J Mascis becoming president? Or does a song immediately qualify as political just by having the word 'riot' in the title?

Keep on running in the dark
Dude ranch dream has fallen apart
Stolen kisses let's pretend my friend
You play sick and I will mend
Let the action begin again
You be patient and I'll attend
Let's rehearse let's do it again
Dude ranch nurse yr brand new friend
Let nurse give you a shot
It's something to do
Took my pulse
Let nurse give you a shot
It's something to do
I could love you
I could have you
Deep sleep coming along
Like a newborn colt you found
I'll wrap it around with gauze
Dizzy reminder
Ouch, you found
Let nurse give you a shot
Don't sleep too long
You be cowboy and I'll allow
Let me ride you till you fall
Let's pretend there's nothing at all
Nobody knows the shape I'm in
Kiss me now it's just a sin
Nobody knows the shape I'm in

Anti-Bush? If Kim says so. Overtly political? Not a chance in hell.

I don’t have access to the WSJ and I’m not paying! The only reason I knew of the article is due to it being mentioned on a radio show. Truth is, h8kurdt, I have zero desire to discuss the number of countries that allow mail-in ballots. I don’t have a dog in that fight!

My response was regarding States within the United States of America who choose to not use mail-in ballots. Each does so for various reasons and I believe the most prevalent reason is population......but I could be mistaken! Guess what, it doesn’t matter what myself or any of you think. Mail-in ballots are a legitimate policy dispute and Americans are free to come down on whatever side they choose......but nothing good comes from changing how America votes six months prior to an election!

More importantly, if Americans can stand in socially distant lines at the grocery store and marijuana dispensaries, they can stand in line to vote!

The subject of my response was questioning why twitter chose to fact check President Trump this week simply because he tweeted about a policy. Twitter has had opportunity to do so in previous years and twitter chose not to until this week. For many this move reeks of censorship.

Thought you said you were done with this? Alright, look at it this way. Nirvana never wrote a political song, save for downer, however their actions as a band made them political. Exact same situation with sonic youth.

Your obsession that because it's not "overt" (word of the week people) it's not political is glib. Think it's a desperation to hide the fact that your political views are the exact opposite of sonic youth's.

So you link me to read a piece without having read it yourself? Eesh.

Best way trump can avoid having the fact check pieces is by, y'know, not lying. Of course that would be too difficult to do.

overto from overton needs overtness! or else!

Sonic Youth's recorded output is, what, +/- 300 songs? We are struggling to cobble together a list of 5 political songs; therefore, my conclusion is they are not a political band.

I'll concede Youth Against Fascism, Peace Attack, Chapel Hill (one of my all-time favorite SY songs), and Shoot (you missed that one). The rest are a stretch, IMO.

Oh, so it's about percentages. Bob Dylan and Bruce Springsteen are not and have never been political at all, then.

EDIT: You are one disgusting piece of shit, man. Pulling dumb fucking arguments out of your ass to move the goalpost. Fuck off already.

I'm fairly certain I had read somewhere that it was supposed to be a parody on some level. Plus, the "immaturity" of some of the lyrics ("impotent jerk/fascist twerp") combined with the way Thurston delivers the line, "We're gonna bury you, man!" sounding very #Kony2012-esque (even if that..ahem..."movement" was years off). That he keeps repeating "It's the song I hate" implies that the narrator is aware they're being had.

Not to say it's a bad song or that it somehow takes away from the band's leftist stance, but it's more of an indictment of young people who wear activism like a fashion trend. Calling someone out as a fraud when you've already shown yourself to be genuine in other cases is an affirmation of that stance.

In Union There Is Strength

I have watched this week’s unfolding events, angry and appalled. The words “Equal Justice Under Law” are carved in the pediment of the United States Supreme Court. This is precisely what protesters are rightly demanding. It is a wholesome and unifying demand—one that all of us should be able to get behind. We must not be distracted by a small number of lawbreakers. The protests are defined by tens of thousands of people of conscience who are insisting that we live up to our values—our values as people and our values as a nation.

When I joined the military, some 50 years ago, I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution. Never did I dream that troops taking that same oath would be ordered under any circumstance to violate the Constitutional rights of their fellow citizens—much less to provide a bizarre photo op for the elected commander-in-chief, with military leadership standing alongside.

We must reject any thinking of our cities as a “battlespace” that our uniformed military is called upon to “dominate.” At home, we should use our military only when requested to do so, on very rare occasions, by state governors. Militarizing our response, as we witnessed in Washington, D.C., sets up a conflict—a false conflict—between the military and civilian society. It erodes the moral ground that ensures a trusted bond between men and women in uniform and the society they are sworn to protect, and of which they themselves are a part. Keeping public order rests with civilian state and local leaders who best understand their communities and are answerable to them.

James Madison wrote in Federalist 14 that “America united with a handful of troops, or without a single soldier, exhibits a more forbidding posture to foreign ambition than America disunited, with a hundred thousand veterans ready for combat.” We do not need to militarize our response to protests. We need to unite around a common purpose. And it starts by guaranteeing that all of us are equal before the law.

Instructions given by the military departments to our troops before the Normandy invasion reminded soldiers that “The Nazi slogan for destroying us...was ‘Divide and Conquer.’ Our American answer is ‘In Union there is Strength.’” We must summon that unity to surmount this crisis—confident that we are better than our politics.

Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead he tries to divide us. We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership. We can unite without him, drawing on the strengths inherent in our civil society. This will not be easy, as the past few days have shown, but we owe it to our fellow citizens; to past generations that bled to defend our promise; and to our children.

We can come through this trying time stronger, and with a renewed sense of purpose and respect for one another. The pandemic has shown us that it is not only our troops who are willing to offer the ultimate sacrifice for the safety of the community. Americans in hospitals, grocery stores, post offices, and elsewhere have put their lives on the line in order to serve their fellow citizens and their country. We know that we are better than the abuse of executive authority that we witnessed in Lafayette Square. We must reject and hold accountable those in office who would make a mockery of our Constitution. At the same time, we must remember Lincoln’s “better angels,” and listen to them, as we work to unite.

Only by adopting a new path—which means, in truth, returning to the original path of our founding ideals—will we again be a country admired and respected at home and abroad.

James Mattis

Paul Krugman's newsletter, June 17:

And his niece's! With all these books about him portraying him in a negative light you've got wonder whether they're true not...

His niece's book speaks of a jizzbucket behaving privately the same way we've all seen that jizzbucket behaving publicly, and the facts check out with serious reporting over the years, so I give it the "believable, why not" rating.

John Bolton has certainly proved one thing over the years: he doesn't give A FLYING FUCK about making himself look good. This is a guy who said the U.N. shouldn't exist, that instead there should only be the United States and a bunch of sycophant countries and their will should be the law of the planet. This is a mook who wants to bomb Iran, Venezuela, and possibly California ASAP. And apparently he digs the sick shit he sees in the mirror. And he agreed to work for Agent Orange for 17 months, so he's no #nevertrump Republican. So in this case I give him the "completely believable" rating.

The "WAAHHHH, THEY'RE DOING IT FOR THE MONEY!!! TRIPLE EXCLAMATION POINT!!!" tweets that will follow (or are they already here?) are of course as horseshitty as all the fucking tweets that preceded them. Everybody wants money. I want money right now! Doesn't mean I'm gonna lie about stuff to get it; if I earn it by telling the truth, more power to me.

Trump is a fuckface
Barr is a fuckface
Bolton's the walrus!
Goo goo goo joob!

You get I was taking the piss when I asked about if they're truthful, right?

I do, I do. I was just giving my US$0.02, which is about 15 in local currency. (Nothing to get excited about, as a subway ticket is 800...)

It always gets worse.

Trump asked China’s Xi to help him win reelection, according to Bolton book

Of course, we shouldn't be knowing this now from John fucking Bolton's book, but from the testimony of John fucking Bolton that never was because Mitch McFuckingConnell blocked it, you follow.

More: https://news.google.com/stories/CAAq...S&ceid=US%3Aen

John Bolton
April 2018 - becomes National Security Advisor (highest level of classified clearance)
September 2019 - removed as National Security Advisor
June 2020 - wants to release a book

The DOJ’s lawsuit filing
”This is a civil action by the United States to prevent Defendant John R. Bolton, a former National Security Advisor, from compromising national security by publishing a book containing classified information—in clear breach of agreements he signed as a condition of his employment and as a condition of gaining access to highly classified information and in clear breach of the trust placed within him by the United States Government.“



“our intent is not to censor the publication or to squelch any First Amendment rights that Ambassador Bolton may have in talking about things but to make sure in a pre-publication review, which is ongoing and which he wants to short circuit, to make sure that top-secret information, sensitive intelligence information that he and maybe only he has gotten is not disseminated to the detriment of the United States.”


William Barr
“We don’t believe that Bolton went through that process — hasn’t completed the process — and, therefore, is in violation of that agreement,” Barr said. The Trump administration is “trying to get them to complete the process — go through the process — and make the necessary deletions of classified information,” Barr said.”

Man, I've missed this place. Bytor desperately defending Trump, Skunk being lawyerly whilst missing the point, Symbols with his ol' drunkel bob lines.

Never die on us, sugar pie.

Kayleigh McEnany just compared an indoor Trump rally to ... baseball

Reply from CNN: "Being hit by a batted ball isn't contagious" :D


And also from CNN:
Fact-checking Trump and Barr's attacks on John Bolton's book

Don't forget me randomly stating we're all doomed and the end is nye.

New Year's Eve? ;):D