yes this was precisely my point. indeed never trump is luring many Republicans across party lines meanwhile we haven't even seen all the "undecided" folks make their choice when the numbers strongly suggest these are largely leaning towarss democrats. its an unprecedented 20% undecided in many polls (though i rarely take much away from polls) and considering the temporary success of FeelTheBern im betting 5-10% of those will vote for Overlord Hillary, some might Trump or more likely third party, and some just won't vote.

Of course, anyone who Felt The Bern and was enthusiastic about Sanders but ends up voting Trump is a wretched mook who didn't and doesn't understand jack shit, is sniping scattershot, and should be banned from voting on account of being a bitch-ass retard.

personally after Sanders totally caved and sold out to Overlord Hillary by endorsing her i dare say anyone who felt the bern at all was fairly bitch ass gullible to begin with ;)

what you call "selling out" *in this particular scenario* others call being a responsible adult

what would you have him do? call for a doomed revolution, hand the keys to the kingdom to republicans, self-immolate in a pyre?

i mean-- the man is 75 years old, not 13. i think he's over throwing tantrums at this point in his life.

that is absolute bullshit and you know it as well as i do. he could have supported the party, de facto endorsing Overlord Hillary, without actually outright endorsing her. his candidacy was supposedly about a radical criticism of the mainline party norms, seems crass not responsible to kowtow to the party for really no reason at all.



not at all, why are you so obsessed with false dichotomies? its like you are hard wired to always see everything and everyone through a polarity.


I can't tell you how many people who Felt the Bern were very very antagonistic against Overlord Hillary. i knew all along he would endorse her, but his campaign milked their support and so he titled towards attacking her very character in the final months of the primaries. it was unnecessarily ugly to be frank.

he pandered to them then sold them out and now they are burned and discouraged. they would have voted for other democrats in local and congressional spots even if not for Hillary, now? many just won't vote.

of course a lot of berniebros are bummed out and burned out and throwing tantrums because they couldn't get all they wanted for christmas.

endorsing the democratic party without endorsing hillary would be a ridiculous maneuver. laughable, insulting, and ultimately undermining. what would he accomplish with that, exactly? give the republicans more fodder? absurd.

it surprises me that for someone who studies history you don't get that politics, if it aims to serve the people, is about getting results, not about making empty gestures. but see, no-- i remember you criticizing pussy riot for more or less that. so which one is it? me, i think it's fitting for pussy riot to make empty gestures because they're young and they're in the propaganda business and they're not in charge of anything

bernie sanders isn't pussy riot though. he's a leader of the liberal wing of a very large party that has other factions that want a piece of the next administration. if he's going to have a positive impact in the next 4 years he needs to get a place at the table and have some influence, not make himself a pariah by acting childish.

because he is a mature, responsible, somewhat wise individual, i'm guessing he figures he can put aside his pride and his ego and serve a bigger cause than self-aggrandizing through empty adolescent gestures.

should the democrats win, he'll have elizabeth warren as the leading democrat in the senate, he'll have access to the administration, and then they can start making a difference where it counts which is writing and enacting policies that benefit the working and middle class.

taking your toys and walking away doesn't get you anybody to play with.

38 billion deal with Israel not enough? war. we love it!

 

The "Clinton's obviously going to win" sentiment on the last few pages really bothers me.

You're wrong!

Damn it, people. ASSUME Trump is well on his way to winning, and adjust attitudes and behavior accordingly. This is sanity.

yes

+2

Remember how a lot of people thought there was no way Dubya would ever be elected?

Hell, it goes back further than that. The story of the tortoise (Drump) and the hare (HRC) spells it out. Say what you will about the basket of deplorables. But they are organized and very motivated. If every person of goodwill just lays back and assumes Clinton automatically has it made, I can tell you who will win the election. And it won't be Hillary.

you guys are all cute. actually a lot of people DID think bush II could get elected, he was more centrist, toned done rhetoric, and nationally electable

haha trump ain't winning shit... media is reporting skewed polls and 24/7 Trump coverage because it is must see TV, click bait, and good ratings. trump isn't winning shit but the TV/media narrative wants us all to believe he will because it makes his opponents afraid (fear sells) and his opponents cocky (hubris sells too)

frankly im starting to think yall are giving trump credit to be superstitious

I'm sure living in California--especially in LA--could lull a person into thinking Trump hasn't got a chance. California is a solidly blue state. But things aren't the same everywhere across the country. There is a lot of support for Trump. And while a lot of Trump's supporters belong in HRC's "Basket Of Deplorables", a lot don't. Listen to NPR, or check out a lot of the people who live in northeast Ohio, Land Of Evollove. A lot of Rust Belt residents don't like Trump's racism, sexism, etc. But they are supporting Trump out of economic desperation. I've heard and read a lot of interviews with them. I think their support for Donnie The Clown is misguided but these people, whose towns have been devastated by long-closed factories, have real fears that need to be addressed. Clinton has spoken of the need for retraining and helping out people in such areas, but she hasn't done nearly enough of it. Yes, the factories started closing long before the ill-advised trade deals came about, and people shouldn't be waiting for some savior to come along and magically bring the old jobs back. Fuck the hardcore right-wingers, they'll vote for Trump if he rubbed dog shit in their hair. But the economically disenfranchised have the numbers to put Drump over the top. This thing is far from over.

On edit: I'm showing my age here. But prior to the 1972 election, a lot of people--many conservatives included--thought Nixon was a slimy, shady liar. Yeah, any Democrat could knock him off! George McGovern--the Bernie Sanders of his time--won just Massachusetts and the District of Columbia. And while Clinton would never lose in a landslide like that, sitting back and waiting for an "inevitable" HRC victory will do nothing but guarantee the inauguration of President Trump.

there is something DEEPLY stupid in us/uk politics where people think the government can magically reintroduce lifetime medium wage manufacturing jobs because its gonna spank the offshorers and they'll come back and operate at a loss

aint. fucking. happening.

automation has obsolesced most of the things the body can do.

deal with it or keep stalling your lives and economies.

oh we have a very solid and powerful GOP block, its not the liberal paradise everyone around the country imagine. i work in a very conservative community, in 2012 i saw nothing but Romney signs, even teenagers enthusiastically wearing Romney t-shirts. however in 2016 no Trump ANYTHING. Trump is only doing well in the media, in real life most non-dingbat Republicans can't STAND him. he is the embodiment of the TEA party but TEA party was always a vocal minority of GOP.


sure, but it never really rises above 35-40% and even THAT is a projection. STOP THE FEAR MONGERING.


is that why almost every established GOP leader has come out and dissed Trump? just saw Bob Gates.denounce Trump as "a fool"


so? so Ohio is the entire country now? fuck what a bunch of braindead white people think. if they are dumb enough to think Trump will help them they are already.revealing their level of intelligence. why take such stupid people seriously?



did you forget for most of its history rust belt was Blue Dog pro Union Democrats yes? shouldnt forget that when a clown like trump is the GOP. sure sometimes they voted for centrist Republicans BUT Trump doesn't fit that mold.

Nixon was a total slime ball.BUT he was also a MASTER politician, had been a very popular Vice president, and ran a rather tame campaign in 1968 compared to Trump. now sure, two yeara ago i thought Nixon.was a textbook example of how the Republicans would win 2016 based on all the racism against Obama just like Tricky Dick won on the "silent majority" of resentful white people who were pissed off about the Civil Rights movement.

this is not 1968. Nixon in hindsight seems unelectable, but in the 50s and 60s he was very popular and respected, things that Trump simply is NOT.

Cleveland and Ohio, yall just won the NBA championship, don't worry about Trump, if anything just have Lebron be a write in candidate

Because they can vote. Their vote, in fact, counts as much a Nobel laureate's.

Seriously dude, your bubble is air tight.

sure but they are a declining constituency which everyone seems to be giving to much credit towards. i don't live on a bubble, but yall seem to be letting Trump's bubble mess with your heads

i think as i read that the point here is that everyone else is talking about possibilities and probabilities and scenarios, but you're the only one talking about certainties

that's the air tight bubble i think--the blind faith in your own predictive capacities and refusal to be receptive to the ideas of others

people try to put arguments forward to say "this could happen" or "that could happen," but all you do is dismiss them like no thought other than your own can cross your mind and your thoughts are 100% guaranteed correct. that i think is where it gets frustrating.

its not that white people are braindead, its that the white people support Trump are braindead and to be sure the ONLY support Trump has is with braindead white people

but THAT is the entire point, it is a certainty. check back with me in November

I don't know if I envy your optimism or pity it.

with your certainty i assume you're betting everything you have on the outcome. Easy money, right?

for the life of me i can't understand why this isn't accepted as a universal truth. America is corrupt, militaristic, racist society but we ain't THAT corrupt and racist. Trump represents the Dinosaur constituency, and like Iron Head Hayes said to Al Bundy "the only problem with being a dinosaur is there ain't no future in it."

that's plainly absurd.

i'll grant that the probabilities at the moment are in favor of your prediction, and i certainly hope things will break that way, but probabilities aren't certainties until they're realized.

that's, like--- reality 101.

at least for those of us who exist in linear time and aren't "seers"

oh a token black kid, we should all be terrified now.


i aint mad at that, the Democrats indeed sold out, i work Union, i get it, but in what universe does Trump somehow BETTER represent true working class values?? THIS is the premise that keeps getting missed in the media feeding frenzy and smoke machine.. the criticisms of democrat party are totally fair and valid, its that GOP only looks even worse in that regard.



if they see Trump as anything as less than deplorable then fuck them they is braindead too..



you misrepresenting Ceasar Chavez to fit an agenda. also its not undocumented workers who deserves any blame, its the heartless and corrupted corporations who not only hire such folks at cut throat wages but even worse go to Mexico and Central America and directly recruit! fuck that.. Fuck them. people are not scabs they are human beings. scabs are assholes who reject unions on principle and work directly to sabotage. undocumented workers are an entirely different scenario

I'm not sure how many brain-dead people are on this list. Heartless, sure, but not brainless, however much I disagree or even despise a few of these folks. Donald Rumsfeld may be Satan, but he's not a drooling redneck either. Bet his IQ's higher than yours. Maybe even mine. :-)

(Although there are a few braindeads on the list--Dan Quale? I'll give you that.)


List of Donald Trump presidential campaign endorsements

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Donald_Trump_presidential_campaign_endorse ments,_2016

(a) just three days ago Rumsfield was talking nothing but shit about Trump so his endorsement is entirely disingenuos

(b) proove me wrong that Trump has more than just braindead white people supporting him... i can wait

Okay, take Rumsfeld off the list.

????

These are serious people supporting Trump (including at least one black person--I'm not familiar with all the names). As you requested. After I gave.

you know, i know, every one knows we could make a much longer list of establishment Republicans who have refused to outright endorse Trump or who have been vocally critical of Trump than we can support. further we can also make a much larger list of anecdotal evidence of Republicans who have said they will vote for Hillary than we can of disaffected Democrats who will vote for Trump.

y'all giving me too hard a time like yall don't know what im talking about. yall acting like i love Hillary or an endorsing her myself, im just offering my scouting report do with it what you will

you know, i know, every one knows we could make a much longer list of establishment Republicans who have refused to outright endorse Trump or who have been vocally critical of Trump than we can support. further we can also make a much larger list of anecdotal evidence of Republicans who have said they will vote for Hillary than we can of disaffected Democrats who will vote for Trump.

y'all giving me too hard a time like yall don't know what im talking about. yall acting like i love Hillary or an endorsing her myself, im just offering my scouting report do with it what you will

Refuted

how so? go ahead and try.. every poll, all the results from the primaries, the smell test.. all support what i am saying. fuck it if it offends some white people they should check their own tell those bigoted assholes chill out

What I'm suggesting is common sense. If that's fear mongering to you, so be it.

There are a lot of Republicans who HAVE endorsed Trump. This is nothing like 1964, when so many GOP types loathed Goldwater that they formed a group called Republicans For Johnson. Don't see that this time, do you? That's because Trump has a lot more support than Goldwater did.

If you had read my post carefully, you will see that I pointed out northeast Ohio as an example of places where workers have felt a sustained economic whammy, not as the "entire country". You're the one who sees everything through a California lens. As for "braindead" and "stupid" blue collar workers who have been suffering a long time, that is exactly the kind of condescending, elitist attitude that Trump plays off of and gets support from. And where have you been the past 35 to 40 years? A lot of rust belt areas have gone GOP. Union power, regrettably, has significantly waned.

Oh, and my Nixon example was based on the 1972 election, NOT 1968. Please read more carefully.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Drjohnrock again. (sincerely, i appreciate you engaging in real dialogue and making great points)

great point, i would only add that at that time Johnson was a well respected Democrat in Republican circles long before the 1960 Election indeed its precisely why Kennedy nabbed him for Vice President. further the assassination of Kennedy temporarily united a lot of political world. Johnson had both of those going for him

insensitive or not, if Trump wants to "shoot from the hip" all the time so will i. i will repeat this again, if folks who are working class or struggling honestly in any way shape or form believe Trump cares about them, can relate to them, or will improve their lives in any way are indeed braindead and stupid, period.

Also you said rust belt is firmly GOP, didn't Bill Clinton and Obama win Ohio? so how am i 40 years off again?


i can see the world through more than California lenses even if i am crass about it. i will again remind you that California has a huge and powerful GOP block, we have had more Republican governors, control of state legislature, and mayors of major cities in my lifetime than democrats. we had prop 187 one of most racist laws in American history. we had Prop 8 a few years ago.

It's like Pac said, "everyone thinks Cali is just fun and bitches.."

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to The Soup Nazi again.

id spread rep to all y'all but im repped out and i bet if you check your rep youll see i already repped when i was last able to

A Trump county campaign chair in Ohio just blamed racism on Obama
Then she had to resign. :D

hey, this dude just gave a white country lib and non-urban urban conservative people a history lesson.

I guess you guys are a ok. though you've never skucked a corn on the cob or peeled a pee. because if you haven't then, your a racist son of a bitch mugfucker. I asked my relatives..: "are the grown crops today as good as they were yesterday"? they told me: pick cotton. asshole.

blam blam , that tells me nothing about who I should vote for. you can vote for yr butterbean auntie and you can vote for yr 8 point buck boy but, im not voting for NO ONE!!!!!


eat it. gravy steak is served? "hell yeah".