I believe Consequence could've helped with some early stuff. But I feel like as Kanye progressed his own sound really came out. It becomes more obvious that you're hearing him. Maybe that's why I think each album is better than the one before it.

Here's what I'm thinking after more research: Kanye doesn't write his lyrics... Mostly because he just spits, like Jay-Z, who also not only bounces ideas off of others, but straight up lifts the odds phrase entirely from BIG, or from earlier incarnations of himself.

Consequence definitely helped with *ELEMENTS* of songs through MBDTF, but we're taking the most innocuous lines on the books here, like the "Will Smith and his son" bit from Champion. For most of his efforts he's credited. For some of the smaller ones, he's no... Why? Because when Ye said "that's good, can I use that?" Consequence was too stoned to give a fuck.

Kanye is certainly not trying to fuck anyone here. He credits his crew when they help with a song, but you can tell from his flow on the first here albums that he was mainly spitting off the cuff, or from memory. There's a delay in his timing that indicates that he was definitely taking the Jay-Z approach, but that he wasn't the emcee Jay was at the time (still isn't)

Rhymedfest contributed to Jesus Walks, not sure what, but so many if the songs are so particular to Kanye's own personality quirks, life story, and world view that I think Cons was trying to blow everything out of proportion by discrediting the man who sent his ass packing.

On 808's, he was going for a pop star, Prince/MJ vibe, so it makes sense that he would have writing help. But I don't believe anyone has ever written his songs for him, especially not on MBDTF, watch the throne, Cruel Summer, or Yeezus.

Also, how many rap artists can claim full ownership of every lyric in every song? Um... None. Rap writing is a different creative process than singer-songwriter shit. Emcees since the dawn of rap have been bouncing lines around with their crews. It's how the genre works.


Personally, I think Ye's lyrics are gold, but certainly not the defining trait f his music. Sometimes they're not even that good. Other times, they're perfect. But he does more for himself than just about anyone in the genre.

Also, the girl who's convinced that he's a black Britney Spears also made several comments about how he "only sings through a robot voice, I don't respect that, blah blah blah" which was never true entirely, and suggests that her knowledge of Kanye is dated and limited to pop culture cliche Cleveland show jokes about him.

Anyone with more info please speak up.

btw as far as i rememeber, Cons was beefing with Kanye when he said that.

This should concern you more than it seems to.


He did do that, yes, in the liner notes, even on Yeezus.



Not every song, true, doing the same research as you it seems Kanye has a lot more ghostwriters than usual.


That is not true, plenty of MCs and rappers free-style all their own material. How did Tupac fill up 48 hours of unreleased studio tapes during the All Eyez on Me recording sessions? Free-styling and rapping note versions like crazy on tape, even acappella. Its how all those Makaveli tapes and remixes came out. You're right, rap and hip-hop are created through a different kind of process, but I don't think its fair in your Kanye Apologist posts to suddenly throw all of rap music under the "they don't write their own shit" bus in order to legitimize Kanye doing it. If Kanye does it extensively, that is his thing, whatever, but lets not discredit all of rap and hip-hop along the way.



Agreed, there is a lot we don't know, more than we do, but just looking at Kanye's credits and album liner notes, its clear he gives A LOT of credit to A LOT of writers. Usually in rap, this is the credit you give to OTHER rappers who also appeared on your track, but for Kanye it seems there is more to this than just that.

speaking of Cons, y'all have Tribe Called Quence? That album is dope.

This might an unpopular thing to say, but I think College Dropout is a pretty mediocre album. I've always *liked* it since I heard "Through The Wire," back in the day. And I LOVE "Two Words," but it's just so... "just ok" sounding to me.

Late Registration is better. "Drive Slow" is insane. "Everything I Am" is great - and it's funny cuz you could hear Common spitting on that. But again, a lot of it just sounds like a *good* rapper's album.

Graduation is where shit got great. I love that record. Ye exploring like french techno and all. It just feels like that's the beginning for me - where he really starts getting into his own exploring the potential of music and not just dusty loops.

808s is a beast. What an insane record. "Amazing" is probably my hands down fav Kanye track.

MBDTF is of course incredible.

Throne is near-perfect.

Cruel Summer is great, but a little too messy. "Mercy" was my fav single of that year. There's so much great stuff, but eh, filler as well.

Yeezus is 10/10.

new Avril album leaked. i love the first two albums and a bunch of songs off the third and fourth albums. let's hear.

she's awesome.

in case you wondered, my fav albums of the year (although it isn't over yet):

1. Kanye West - Yeezus
2. A$AP Rocky - Long.Live.A$AP
3. My Bloody Valentine - MBV
4. Iceage - You're Nothing
5. Chance the Rapper - Acid Rap
6. Lorde - Pure Heroine
7. John Legend - Love in the Future
8. Danny Brown - Old
9. Pusha T - My Name Is My Name
10. Denzel Curry - Nostalgic 64

these are my top 2, just not sure in which order yet. The other 8 TBA.

Ab-Soul's album "Control System" is still amazing

listening to it when i'm in the right mood is such a mindfuck

MMLP2 leaked

this is seriously the worst Em album to date, even worse than Recovery

god even the track with Kendrick is horrible

and this is coming from a guy who has enjoyed SSLP, MMLP, TES, Relapse, even some of Encore

this album is like everything that is wrong with Eminem

Anyone digging on the latest macklemore video?

It's good on hash candy. mmm hash candy

link?

Em just dropped the worst album of the year

maybe of all time

you guys should listen to it, just for the laughs

Meh. A wall of classism? For the fucking Kardashians? ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS BRO??

(a) its not like she hasn't been on plenty of other magazine covers before and (b) dude, seriously, enough with the shameless egomania, we get it, you worship yourself and think by default we should worship everything about you, but Kanye, you are not the center of life in America or this world, even rap music for that matter. GET OVER IT MY NINJA, SERIOUSLY!

http://www.grantland.com/blog/hollyw...ecent-comments

Encore was MUCH less embarrassing than those awful look at me I'm a drug addict sorry no I'm not yes I am no I'm God! piece of shit albums from the last ten years.

I knew it would suck. I just hope everyone knows it sucks. It's time for Eminem to go away forever as an artist.

I think he'd be a great celebrity golfer. That should be his next move. Raise some money fo' da mile.

Ok, even I'll admit, this is some painfully embarrassing shit right here.

Dear God Kanye,
Please just make music and don't say much until you get your meth habit under control and learn to temper your need to alleviate guilt/self-hatred by having sex with awful creatures.

Thank you

Kanye keeps making it harder and harder for me to defend him, as a fan.

1.) it's clear that he approached recording this album without any motivation.

2.) even his flow (which was always the best aspect of his music) is completely gone by now.

3.) i wish he would retire right now, but i think that there's at least one more album to follow, he can still sell millions just off a "retirement album" gimmick.

so i just revisited Relapse today, and i seriously think that it's an underrated gem, i actually like it more than MMLP.

Em is switching between crazy flows over Dr. Dre beats, talking about rape, serial killers and overcoming his drug addiction.

don't get me wrong, it's far from a perfect album.. it's flawed, and really really weird. actually, it's so underground that i can't believe it went double platinum and even won a grammy.

i think that's the album Em really wanted to make, but the bad reception made him say "fuck it" and just go full sellout mode.

i'm praying that Kanye will drop a Yeezus-on-steroids album next year. like he went from The College Dropout to Late Registration in one year.

Same. His whole having Jesus on stage with him made me wanna give up on him. Shame his music is so damn good. And he knows it rather annoyingly.


I've not heard that album. However his recovery album isn't that bad in my eyes. I've said this before on here but Eminem kills it on No Love.


I can't even begin to imagine what that'd sound like.

Oh and i'll wait till the release of the new Eminem album before giving it a whirl.

new Lloyd Banks tape, if it's anything like his last tape then it should be dope: http://www.datpiff.com/Lloyd-Banks-F...pe.445238.html

i like that verse/song. i was expecting the track with Kendrick to be like No Love, Pt. 2. at last it turned out to be a joke song.

Yeah, I've been meaning to ask about the "elephant in the room"...

By which I of course mean the stage props Kanye is using in what sounds like a touring rendition of Gob Bluth's Christian wedding magic show.

I can't bring myself to look at any photos. I just pray he makes something unexpectedly awesome out of this.

Damn, and I was SO looking forward to seeing him with Kendrick. Shit. I may not have the nerve now.

Interestingly, a lot of people are digging the set, I read a lot of rave reviews on facebook and LA media sites. Interestingly, at the Staples apparently a lot of people were pissed enough to split early, so only his "fans" stayed, which may be good for him. If Kanye could lose all the hype he might cool off and mellow out. He is essentially a troll, he gets attention and it gets to his head.

Surprising to see all the SYG resident Kanye West Apologists suddenly seeming reflective.

I have taken great pains to defend Kanye to naysayers and idiots who think he's just an autotone and a pair of sunglasses. I've devoted hours of my life, even before I really liked his solo work (or more specifically, his rapping) to arguing with haters and I have usually schooled them, and turned the argument into an intellectual one about hip hop, it's purpose, it's history, and Kanye's place therein.

However, I am now encountering arguments against his character that I cannot refute. I still know he is the heart and soul of mainstream hip hop, and that he's an integral and eccentric artist who is constantly both challenging and reinventing the norms of the game, but when people bring up his quotes and tweets and interviews with this or that fucking magazine, I'm dumbfounded.

I don't pay attention to that shit. To me, he is his music, and that speaks for itself. No argument or defense necessary. But what am I gonna do? Play "So Appalled" or "Everything I Am" or "Power" for all the honkers I run into dissing his apparel, his ego, and his choice in women?
Fuck no. I'm gonna have NOTHING to say in his defense to people who haven't heard his music. That's going to suck.

this new Yelawolf x DJ Paul EP goes hard as fuck: http://www.datpiff.com/Yelawolf-DJ-P...pe.545492.html

so the new M.I.A. might be the best album this year after Yeezus.

Such is fame. Its also why generally speaking, I like to avoid hyped and mainstream music of any genre, because I don't like having to apologize all the time for the character flaws. It seems that in indie music, such traits are more reserved less exaggerated. Its not that they're not there, its just they are less pronounced. As to Kanye, these character traits/flaws (depending on your perspective) have always been prominent, since day 1, and it is part and parcel of the Kanye package. You can't have the music without the personality of the musician. Its sort of like dating a bi-polar person, you of course always enjoy the sheer joy and passion of their manic up modes, but when they crash into the depressive side of the coin, suddenly shit seems sour. Its like, duh, the manic is part of the depressive, its the same person. You either accept people for who they are, or you don't. For example, I venerate Tupac probably MORE and MORE OBNOXIOUSLY than y'all like Kanye, and the guy has very serious issues with his relationships with women, his blatant/brazen combative attitude, and his charming self-absorption. He is what he is. Many people have strongly and rightfully criticized Tupac for his flaws, as they should, and when you're under the microscope these flaws become all the more glaring. However, for myself, I never personally found Kanye's music fantastic enough to justify his personality. Y'all would have to spend more time defending/explaining his music to me before we ever got around to the customary apologies for his personality. Tupac was abrasive, Kanye is just getting ridiculous. Severian, you mentioned he is using meth, is this true? If that is the case, IT EXPLAINS EVERYTHING. And the guy needs to stop, meth is bad news, it makes heroin look tame by comparison, seriously.

listening to ARTPOP. pretty cool album so far, i'm pleasantly surprised.

hot shit.

I have no proof that he's doing meth, and I haven't even heard a single rumor that supports the accusation in even the most minor or subtle way.

Just clarifying here... That comment was made mostly for the entertainment of the precious few who read my posts when they see them, consuming half pages in one of three threads.

---

Re: Music not justifying the Personality

Suchfriends..., have you ever heard MBDTF from beginning to end, in a setting that would allow for maximum attention to be paid to the music, lyrics, production, and underlying thematic content?

I honestly can't imagine, based on your posts, and what I can infer about your taste, how you could possibly not like, if not love, that album (even if you hate all the others)

I am starting to consider it my favorite hip hop album ever. This is a turn of events that my wu-tang, biggie, and Kool Keith raised inner rap fiend would never have thought possible some years ago.


Actually, I realiszed this year that my burned, pirated copy of the album from 2010 was NOT THE ACTUAL ALBUM, but instead a compilation of leaked tracks, Child Rebel Souldier songs, and G.O.O.D. singles from around that era. Lot wasn't until I started really listening to him and finally giving in I the sway his music holds over me, no matter what era it's from, or which abominable artists are included ("To The World" is one of my most played tracks ever, and it has fucking R. Kelly on it, who I really can't stand)

Anyway, when I bought the actual album and couldn't find "Don't Stop" (lol) I was pissed at first, but that was long ago now, and I've been listening to it constantly since. Even back when I thought I had it, but only had half of it and a bunch of songs That didn't seem to fit, I still told people I liked 808's, WTT, and MBDTF. Now it's gelled and I can't imagine a world without it. I've never been so blown away by a hip hop album (sorry Wu Tang Forever).

I guess I'm just saying that I was a hater too, and I only liked the fact that he was making an effort to be different. But when things clicked for me and I really listened, I became an instant megafan. It was "Runaway" that did it. I'd never heard such a weird and radio-unfriendly intro, followed by such a badass groove, followed by such a frightening and evil sample, followed by such a sad, genuine song in all my years of listening to hip hop. That song breaks down to fundamentals of the male psyche with both sympathy and (rightful) accusation.

Also the flow is dope all over, and even though nobody's talking about how touch they are, it's fucking rap, not hip hop. Hard. Hits your chest, makes you think.

My rambling point is, basically, that anyone who genuinely loves hip hop but does not relate to the gangsta mentality, should by all right venerate the shot out of Kanye for MBDTF alone.

Nothing Was the Same is a good album. seems like i was too harsh with it when it came out.

No, you weren't. It's not that great and it's not the masterpiece some people seem to think it is. It's just ok, and that's all. Some good solid boombap, and some shitty whiny synth pop shit. Those are the highs and lows, respectively. The rest is ok and that's all.

Standards are too high this year for ok to be mistaken for good/great. When GFK, Kanye, Pusha, Earl, Black Milk, Danny Brown and A$AP are all in the mix, not even Jay-Z is should be allowed to crack the top ten based on rep.

Sorry, bro. You nailed it first time around.

yeah, i wish there was more boom bap and less boring synth pop shit. it's not in my top albums of the year, good album though.

have you guys already heard the new M.I.A.?

btw, did you not like Chance the Rapper? my 3rd fav rap album after Yeezus and A$AP.