Excellent. I don't want this response to be taken in anything other than the spirit of playful debate (lately it's become obvious that this needs to be made clear, not a dig at Messr Atari).

First, I think pop music has eluded comprehension on a technical level - we the pop consumers, don't really care about whether they can play their instruments. We just care about whether they look good as they mime them.

Second, we buy into marketing, and don't really care about what the performer (note: Performer, not musician) is really . I often feel very alienated from a lot of people because I just couldn't give a shit about what a person is really like, I am the perfect consumer in a lot of ways - The questions for me (in terms of pop consumption) are: Does it entertain me? Do I like enjoy the music on any level? Perhaps most importantly - is this music about being a pure product, or is it hiding its engagement with commerce under faintly ridiculous notions of 'real' or 'technical ability'?

Within pop music, I happen to think the two Avril albums have got lots of great songs. I think the same of Girls Aloud. It's very simple music, yes. But I have enough difficult music to last me about three lifetimes. Pop is wonderful, Avril is wonderful, and I have managed not to really make a point.

Oh, and the most important thing about Avril - she really pisses off 'alternative' people of every stripe, which can only be to her eternal credit.

*Edit: Just in case anyone wants to accuse me of pseudo-postmodern irony - this isn't Irony, this is pure enjoyment in spite of the sticky nature of engaging with 'pure' product, not because of.

ha hah. if i had her body i'd have a high opinion of myself. so high, in fact, that i would just touch & caress myself ceasessly, neglecting any other activity, & likely die of thirst. :D

I just can't venture down that road folks.

Pop music used to be so much more fun and i'm not even saying this in a remotely nostalgic way.These days you can't tell for the most part who's who because everyone dances the same way,dresses the same way and the songs are almost all produced the same way.I used to really like bands like Duran Duran and Nick Kershaw because even though they looked completely ridicolous,they had some good tunes and an instantly recognazible image.I don't mind the odd exception(or simply the odd song)but the vast majority of the pop bands of today pass me by without me even noticing they even existed

In much the same way my Dad would say - "Duran whatnow? Nick Crenshaw? Who are these people?"

i think it's fascinating how most people into any stripe of rock music (being underground punk, fake punk, indie, metal, avant garde, etc.) feels threaten by avril lavigne.

this, from a girl, who roughly less than ten years from now will be as remembered as tifanny and debbie gibson, with the occasional oldies radio hits of yesterday spin.

(and in the spirit of Glice's post, this is not an attack to anyone, it's just an observation)

She will be forgotten, and we'll still be listening to fucking Boulevard of broken fucking dreams over and over and over and over again in the new Green World day Order. This is why Avril is proper pop - she is transient, she is fun for now, her substance will be found if we still like her in five years - she has not, and is unlikely to, slip into that most dreaded of categories: Bloke music. The endless top ten lists with revolver, Astral Weeks, London Calling and all that shit music which is somehow elevated by dint of men and their stupid, annoying opinions on music.

Always trust women when it comes to pop.

BRA-VO *standing ovation*

i couldn't agree more.

except i think green day are destined to be forgotten too, even moreso than avril. i mean, when was the last time you heard an emerson lake and palmer song on the radio? green day are now part of the arrogance and pomposity of pop progressive rock and cookie cutter hair metal and are doomed to be the butt of all music/fashion excess from years to come.

also, i take revolver over sgt pepper anyday of the week, the year or the decade.

give me aguilera over levinge, any day. i have to give it to lavinge though, i heard her album once and it was the most insanely over-produced recoord i've ever heard in my life.

Oh of course :rolleyes:
hahahahah

Aguilera's ok, I don't think her albums are that hot though. I'm actually quite enjoying Shakira at the moment, her Spanish albums are lush-tastic. J-Lo can take her fat arse and fuck off though.

hopefully she'll park her fat arse on my erect cock

REAL SY FANS LISTEN TO AVRIL LIVIGNE!

Actually I love Avril's music! She gets a lot of criticism but its usually from people trying to judge her music on an elevated level. She is not and has never claimed to be ground-breaking or influencial. Her music is simple good old pop song craft. A craft that she happens to be extremely well versed in (I know the co-writing credits). The first time I heard "Skater boi" and "Complicated" they sent shivers down my spine! That for me is the superior judge of good music, something that goes beyond whats cool and beyond the interlectualization of music. Thats why im on this forum because when i first heard "teenage riot" it did the same to me!

you suck!

Will Avril Lavigne ever be remembered?Will she be ever forgotten?Is she ever taken into any sort of actual consideration?By who?When?

Me, now, and presently. Her albums are high quality, well-produced behomoths of pop. And there is nothing wrong with that. Top quality pop, you can't beat it.

If you say that i believe you then............

Wow. Have we somehow slipped out of the internet and into the real world? I thought the internet was made for people saying outrageous things and having ridiculous arguments about nothing at all and insulting people you won't ever meet, rather than agreeing graciously.

Cheers for the Lady Sov track by the way, that's been annoying the street most of today.

kiss baby