From me to you all:

http://topten.org/public/BI/BI317.html

The reason that so many of you hate Christmas is that it is all about love, something that a lot of people on here are woefully short of right now.

Love and enjoying yourself. Go on, try it.

don't make silly generalizations-- love is fine all year round, doing it in the name of jesus and some social master plan is what bugs me. kinda like mother's day, you know, people don't even bother to even call their moms, and then they dump her in some nursing home when she's old, but oh! mother's day! i must buy something! pshhhh....

I think this whole thread has been based on generalisations. "People are shit, and just pretend to be nice once a year".

Indeed.
Christmas is more about obligations, enormous expense, social pressure and the insanity of family logistics than anything.
I love giving gifts to people, I really do, but I like to see something that is "perfect for" one of my friends and just get it and give it to them at the time. The whole structure of it and the herculean financial burden is what I find so annoying. Plus if you are married or in any kind of serious relationship and both extended families live in the same area, there can be any number of stressful situations surrounding the debate of who spends which holiday where.

We all conform. None of us are the rebels we'd like to think we are.

who said people are shit? not me-- i hate christmas though, and organized religion, and mindless social conformity, and consumerism. but it's not like i'm on a rampage against it-- if you like it, have fun with it-- but don't push it on those who don't want any part on it.

The whole thread? Bloody hell, the whole "non-sonics" section is based on silly generalisations.

The negativity flowing round here right now is doing my fucking head in.

Just because we bow to pressure in order not to have some massive family rift develop doesn't mean we have to like it.

(please read with the light tone this was written in.)

well, language itself is a system of generalis/zations, right? so let's not write any more & communicate telepathically. generalizations are good and useful, silly ones can hamper understanding though.

well, language itself is a system of generalis/zations, right? so let's not write any more & communicate telepathically. generalizations are good and useful, silly ones can hamper understanding though.

None of that has anything to do with Christmas per se.

Who decides which are the silly ones? You?

It has everything to do with what Christmas has come to mean in the modern age. If it really were simply about love and having a nice dinner with your parents without all the other pressure and baggage, you wouldn't hear me complaining.

strictly, christmas is about the birth of jesus, right? well, there are a lot of non-christians in the world who have no reason to give a fuck about such a date.

then there's the pagan version, the winder holidays, the saturnalia, all manner of ancient winter festivals, and that would be fine, but our current mass-produced version of it is what annoys me.

now, goat sacrifice followed by orgy, that's what i call a celebration....

I refuse to acknowledge the light tone, you miserable shit.

why not? someone has to make decisions :p

well originally i was referring to the "if you hate christmas is because you hate people" line of argument. then things veered off.

And wasn't Jesus born in the fall in any case, and the date kept so that new converts could still have their holiday at the same time they were accustomed to in their previous heathen lives?

Why bring Jesus into it? This thread is about Christmas.