hip priest: see it's easy to take a pot shot at the 5th. wouldn't fly w/ the eroica however. or even the 9th as much as it's been used/abused/overused. and were you to attempt a similar criticism of the late quartets you'd fall flat on your face. the complexity of those pieces is something else. so if you say the 5th is overrated i might say "ok fine". saying beethoven is overrated however is really not applicable as some of his best music is little known or understood.

now about radio stations, it's the same phenomenon in the u.s.-- "mainstream" classical is all they offer. ZZZZZZZZZZZ. i don't care for that. but in that sense i think mozart would be more "overrated" since he's even got some candy balls named after him






:D:D:D

about jazz: the jazz world is full of hacks and sellouts & popular wankers too. i was refuting your statement that "there are no jazz equivalents of the foo fighters" or something like that by offering the name of diana krall. i didn't get what you meant the 2nd time about the grunge/not-grunge etc.

"hm" - is "hmmm..." that's the sound of me thinking

ha

anyway i see you like janacek-- cool! i'll post there if i have time tonight-- gotta go to the animal collective show in a bit

Well yeah. That's how we snag our guys - brute force.

I chose the 5th deliberately. It's easy to take pot shots at for a reason, a reason that I feel demonstrates my point.


Quite. I wouldn't criticise the late quartets in the same way because I agree - I had no intention of doing so. They are far superior. Also, in noumenal's Beethoven thread, I said tonight - 'As a child I heard a lot of stuff, I still quite like the variations on Bei Maennern, welche Liebe fuehlen, but I'm not a huge fan.' So I'm not blind to the fact that someone can be good (even great), but that doesn't mean that they are in no way overrated.


Fair enough. That's a reasonable point in terms of the qualitative aspects of his compositions, but it doesn't address the imbalance of attention his work gets. On which you say...


Over here, Mozart and Beethoven get similar attention. I personally find Mozart fun to listen to, so I don't think he's as overrated. Don't forget that on both sides of the argument this is all subjective opinion rather than objective fact.

Beethoven has a comedy dog named after him.


What I meant was that Grohl used to be grunge, but he's changed to poprock or whatever you wish to call it. People accept that and
don't call the F** F******* grunge anymore. Cullum and Kenny G have made a similar switch to pop, but get called jazz nonetheless. It seems strange. Krall I think has slightly more of a jazz element left. Opinion again.



Thanks.


Have fun. Saw a video of theirs recently. It seemed OK.

Janacek is fantastic.

Radiohead. Period.........

A short but accurate list, soupisgood.

Nirvana


Radiohead

Get bent.
There was no reason to get personal like that.
Let's hear YOUR music, jerk.

Um....
Hair Police (never did it for me although I love Wolf Eyes)
Solo Iggy Pop (the Stooges rule though)
The Cure
Radiohead
Radiohead
Radiohead
Dead Kennedys vbmenu_register("postmenu_2267", true);

oh i forgot the most overrated ever....
U2

:confused: The Cure and Radiohead overrated, are you crazy ?

Declaring bands to be overrated is totally overrated.

I always think that the Doors are overrated...

here's my list: Eric Clapton (love some of his music, great guitarist, but very overrated), Rolling Stones, Nirvana (love them totally, but again...), Genesis, The Police, ABBA, the Villiage People, Green Day (i fucking hate them, especially Billie Joe, he's a fucking prick and a ripoff artist with no talent), Led Zeppelin (i love em but lets face it, later in their career they just got kinda pathetic), Journey, Foriegner, and all those other pompous 70's power rock bands, AC/DC (love em but overrated), Metallica big time (they used to be good but their ego's got in the way, except for Kirk, he still rocks), Elvis Pressley ( i mean come on! can no one else see that this man was the original boy band? he never wrote any of his material and the only reason he got a record contract was becuz he ripped off black blues musicians), Motley Crue, Poison, The Cure (they are horrible, mopey, whiney, pussies), the Grateful Dead (im a big fan, but lets get real, people), Yellowcard (theyre garbage), Rancid, and almost all those other punk revivalist bands. Whew. Jesus I think i broke my brain!

And all those other "emo" rock bands. I HATE THEM!!!! They have ruined the good and respectable name of "punk"!!!

Every single one of them, except for Fugazi, but i really dont even consider them an emo band. Just a passionate punk band. And yes, there is a difference!!!!!!!

Emo is the most over-used term ever.

Hardcore kids get called emo.
Indie kids get called emo.
Losers that listen to MCR get called emo.

Oh, and Insane Clown Posse. Has anyone seen these Jokers? Clowns who rap? What the fuck? That is the lamest schtick ever! And the thing that erks me the most is that they have a HUGE fanbase. Iv'e lost all hope for humanity. Someone please comfort me!

And Death Cab for Cutie and Modest Mouse. They suck and everyone needs to know that. Why hasnt Built to Spill overrun these idiots? They are the wave of the Indie rock future!!!!! i cant believe they havent really struck media gold. BtS have such a great and accesabl;e sound. It's a shame that they havent been a well known band as their so called comtemporaries. Sigh.

Allright, I think Im done cuz i ran out of names and i think yr all pretty tired of me posting over

and over again.

But how could I forget about U2? They are really trying my patience and I swear to God if I ever encounter Bono on the srteet somewhere i'd punch him right in his pale Irish dick. He bugs me like no one else. So smug and self assured and pretentious. It makes me sick.

I like Dinosaur Jr. but I think they are over rated.

Jim Morrison Jim Morrison Jim Morrison Jim Morrison Jim Morrison Jim Morrison
Jim Morrison Jim Morrison Jim Morrison Jim Morrison Jim Morrison Jim Morisson
Jim Morrison Jim Morrison Jim Morrison Jim Morrison Jim Morrison Jim Morrison
Jim Morrison Jim Morrison Jim Morrison Jim Morrison Jim Morrison Jim Morrison
Jim Morrison Jim Morrison Jim Morrison Jim Morrison Jim Morrison Jim Morrison
Jim Morrison Jim Morrison Jim Morrison Jim Morrison Jim Morrison Jim Morrison

I will kill you.

C'mon, the guy was nothing but a drunken wife beater.

"I'm drunk, I'm nobody. I'm drunk, I'm famous. I'm drunk, I'm fucking dead.
Big fat harry dead guy in a tub, there's your title folks."
-Denis Leary

Bullshit. He was a great writer with an amazing voice. I'm kind of surprised that you, someone who writes music, does not recognize that. Anyway, I never really thought of Jim as being someone who is "overrated." The only thing that is "overrated" is his image on t-shirts/how kids relate to him as "whoa the 60's man...party!!!" etc....not his art.

Yeah, I agree w/ the "overrated" t-shirt thing. & it's the same fucking pic of him over & over again. You know the one, the one of his arms out & he's wearing that red & white necklace. (It was in the Doors movie)
I just don't see how people can even think he is artistic, no offence.

He was extremely "artistic" in every sense of the word for whatever that's worth. His words/poetry are for real man....that's honest shit. Yr comments sound like you are making him out to be a fucking Backstreet Boy or something with no artistic crediblity. Anyway, I'm done. Blah......

What artistic credibility did he have. He just liked being drunk & fucking anything that moved. & how can I forget, showing off his dick. What's artistic about that? (just giving my honest opinion)

Dude, you are talking about his life, not his art. It seems like you are judging him not by his work, but by what he liked to do.....I never said he was a perfect person and neither was the man that you have quoted as yr signature. But seriously what is wrong with getting drunk and showing off yr dick? It has always worked for me:D. Ok....bad joke.

Ha Ha, I still laughed. But, I just heaven't heard any poetry by Jim that is a classic poem that everyone knows by heart. If that makes sense.

Now you do. I know practically all of his lyrics (which are poetry) by heart.

Also, just because people don't know yr stuff by heart doesn't mean that your stuff isn't "credible" or honest art.

True, but isn't great significant art suppose to resinate everything it comes in contact w/? His peotry just didn't do that w/ me.

Hmmmmm......you kind of lost me there.

What I meant to say was, No matter who, or where a certain piece of art comes from, it should be recognized everywhere by everyone as a great work of art.
& I just don't think Jim's art "resinated" the artistical landscape.
(if that makes any sense)

Back to Beethoven...

1.He was going deaf thanks to a nasty bout with Syphiilus, which was also starting to mess with his head and yet, he still managed to hide his illness for over 20 years...

2."Ode To Joy", written when he was completely deaf... This is not the work of someone who is over-rated. Anyone with that type of passion is someone worth their salt.

3.Beethoven was forced by his abusive father to become a composer. Mozart squandered his gift by writing pieces for the rulers of Europe whereas Beehoven's music was considered adult entertainment because of his fiery compositions. Mozart was the Nirvana of his time while Beethoven is more akin to The Stooges...While that comparison may seem a bit trite, it was the first thing that popped into my head...

I was going to lay into this and then realised that it would be stupid of me to do so...

Perhaps it's more Mozart - Radelescu, Beethoven - Xenakis?

I don't think Beethoven had Syphilis - his hearing loss was probably caused by otosclerosis and he died from either cirrhosis of the liver or lead poisoning or both.

Also, the Mozart comment is nuts. Every composer was writing music for leaders and nobility. Beethoven was certainly doing this. Ever heard of Prince Karl von Lichnowsky, Prince Franz Joseph von Lobkowitz, Count Rasumovsky, Friedrich Wilhelm III of Prussia, or Count Ferdinand von Waldstein?

Mozart didn't squander his gift. He may not have been as consistent as Beethoven, but he wrote a lot more.

more output doesn't exactly mean a better composer either. Case in point, a lot of people talk about Brian Wilson's genius when he's been in-active on and off for close to 1 and a half decades...He still makes wonderful music,but he takes a lot of time to put that much more attention into it...

Mozart didn't squander his gift, youre right, I just think he could've been a little less suttle...

As far as why Beethoven went deaf...Ok,maybe it wasn't syphillus, but in those times, it was a common side-effect of the illness...

Other than that, sure Beethoven had his works performed for noblemen and aristocrats,but of course, his dis-content seems more outright and outspoken...
The opening of his 5th symphony was a direct taunting of the hiearchy and their many supporters, whereas,The Marriage of Figaro may have had a similar impact, but it seems un-intentional from the way those events un-folded, or at least they way it's remembered historically...That could very well be fabricated, if so, it'd be nice to know...

Mozart was playing some light material, pretty and wonderful without question, but I still think Mozart's work isn't nearly as explosive as Beethoven's...