Haha, Mika Vainio! Fuck yeah. BLACK TELEPHONE OF MATTER blew me away recently.

Oh look, Sonic Youth Gossip spots the typo. Let's run. And what have you pushed, then? I imagined you'd list the names above, because I can't recall your posts containing that much more than those few names. What I recall, though, is a lot of whinging about nothing, exactly like you're doing on this thread.

Let's have another Smashing Pumpkins picture on this thread, shall we?

what have i pushed? nothing. i'm not trying to push anything.
porky i'm trying to have a proper conversation here and you seem intent on making it personal.

glice i don't really get what you're trying to say. if you mean pan sonic were the most innovative electronic musicians i would disagree.

I'm saying that your idea of innovative was innovative 10 years ago and has since been superseded.

I only reference Mika Vainio because I like him (solo) more than I do the people you listed who, even with the field of 'electronica', weren't ever really innovative.

I'm off to listen to Yatsuano Tone.

Is he wearing a Belezebub 666 jersey? That's kinda cool!

FUCK!

You're rocking to some great shit today, Glice!

The thing is, you are on these threads all the time criticising people who listen to some pop records, dissecting this and that about underground music etc, but a quick run through your posts doesn't make me exactly think that you are all that bothered about posting about bands/musicians beside the usual suspects you normally post about. Since you're so hypocritical, don't be surpsrised. You shouldn't.

Ops! I forgot to post this pic!

I like this one better

Oh, that's horrible.

His face.

I think Corgan must be the only person in the world to grow a shit goatee, put on a shit fishing hat and come out looking better than he normally does.

I know who tone is. i don't think it's really fair to say these "innovative" musicians can be ranked on how forward-thinking they were. people like tone take a totally different approach to music than the artists i listed. personally i would consider that area closer to "art" than music. not because it's OMG SO AMAZING THIS IS ART but because the approach is particularly more focused on sound rather than music. you could say the same about oval. they made a program that rips tiny sound bites off cds and arranges them into full songs. the result is fascinating, and considerably more "musical" than wounded cd despite taking a similar approach, but i wouldn't call it "more innovative", it's really subjective.

on a larger scale, however, i think it would be fair to rate some musicians and their approaches as more forward thinking than others. say if you compared the overdone auto-tuned vocals of t-pain to making an album out of broken equipment.

glice
although i appreciate you refraining from straight out calling me a cunt and a twat (so far) i don't think you know what i think is truely innovative. just because i think the work of a few artists is still unique doesn't meant i think they at the PURE FOREFRONT OF MUSICAL EXPERIMENTATION. I still think they push boundaries though, and really i think that is very hard to deny.

porky
don't give me this "quick run through your posts" bullshit. please. like i said i'm not making this personal. mostly because this is a message board and i think it's kind of sad to trade insults about personal traits which have been gathered from a few posts on the internet. also i don't really get what's with the pumpkins pics given i posted

I seriously and honestly do not care what you or anyone else, ever, thinks is innovative.

The only point I'm making is that the examples you used weren't that innovative or forward-thinking, even within the narrow field of popular 'electronica' (I genuinely despise that term, by the way), 10 years ago. I'm not saying I have any names to replace them (non-dancable electronic music was never my thing) but I didn't claim they were better than the innovative-in-its-context music like Beyoncé's single ladies. Remember, context is very important.

EDIT: And, now I come to think of it, AFX and the like were probably more interesting closer to 15 years ago. Fucking hell, I'm too old to be on the internet, surely.

In all honestly I think he (zero-syg) is a bit too young and naive on a certain level...and lacks a bit of "perspective" on stuff..
This is not a masked insult or anything like that, just something I think is basically a fact.
The "pushing boundaries" is always relative, the spectrum is so wide...
Back on the topic of "good music", I agree almost 100% with atsonic and his post a few posts behind. Heck, I really don't give a damn about the "reason" a song is written for as long as it's a good song to me. Even someone 100% focused on getting rich can write good songs to reach his greedy goal.

Going to call my greatest hits album "PURE FOREFRONT OF MUSICAL EXPERIMENTATION", thanks.

C'mon nic, call him a cunt, you know you want to.

alright yeah i see your point there. context is indeed important when talking about these things.

i'm going to have to disagree with you about calling the artists i listed as being not particularly innovative though. like you say, context is important, and i think in the context of "electronica" what they were doing was just as creative as their peers. as i said, in that field there's so much opportunity for original ideas, it's really difficult to label something as more original than something else. again IN CONTEXT.

i still don't think single ladies is all that advanced for its genre either. it's basically taking the female empowerment themes of "i will survive" (a song that must be like 20-25 years old) and puts it over a minimal beat not unlike that bananas song that gwen stefani made.

nicfit
i understand what you are saying and to a certain extent i agree with you, but i think my opinion still stands, regardless of my age.

Not after typing "In all honestly", Glice...
I suck.

Innovation is all fine and dandy, but really, what's going on in this picture? Sonic Youth Gossip, I'm looking at you.

allow me to repeat myself

massive cunt
billy too

PS: Squarepusher, Autechre, and Aphex Twin all rule. I have every album ever farted out by all of those fuckers, and I listen to 'em all, all the time.

Autechre and Aphex have done some quite innovative things. Aphex in particular is just a jack of all trades.. he can do anything and do no wrong. Fucking love THE TUSS (his side project)... love how it's classic Acid House but also really hard at times. Pusher never struck me as innovative, he just makes good music period, great bass player and the best melodies in electronic music. A lot of his stuff, especially lately, sounds pretty samey, so he tries to augment that by doing some free jazz noodling and other, um, "Experiments".. some not so successful. Love all his stuff though, to some degree, though I don't think he's made a completely amazing album yet.. they're all just too all over the place. Tend to enjoy his EP's more actually.

I'm pretty well-versed in electronic music, and those 3 are the most popular names (along with V-Snares who is just kinda meh usually) for good reason.

Billy Corgan - The Future Embrace

Or possibly, people genuinely like music?

i agree on squarepusher. i would consider his first two albums and go plastic as amazing albums though.

Hayden: I think he was being sarcastic... or ironic...

I hope?

Pumpkins: I love everything he's done to some degree, I just find myself skipping tracks on all his albums. Still, he's written some of the greatest songs OF ALL TIME. "Ernest Borgnine", "Welcome to Europe", fuuuuuuuck.

He was also my ex-girlfriend's favorite musician so I probably won't be listening to him much anymore.