Originally Posted by knox

it depends.
a face represents identity, there are so many things pictures can represent.
usually with sex workers, their faces are not that relevant, the idea that they have an identity outside their sexuality is not the point in that context.
Personally, I love seeing people's faces. I love to know they are real people.
That really hasn't got much to do with exposing yourself to be objectified sexually.
Now if men do that regardless of your intentions, that is another story.
I don't think it's right to expect women to AVOID doing things because of how they COULD be percieved by sexist eyes.
How many times will a woman be doing something as innocent and absent-minded as sitting down, arranging her hair and be accused of trying be seductive, therefore worthy of objectification? Should I be self concious at all times in order to prevent the "male gaze" from doing that? Or should men stop excusing themselves, acting like it was called for?

What woman doesn't like admiration? But one must know the difference between admiring and degrading. The healthy and unhealthy.

I guess what I am trying to say is that there is a tendency to separate sexuality from personality and individuality, and not enough material or behaviour out there accepts that those things are always together.

There is a huge difference between wanting to be sexy and wanting to be objectified.

If some women feel empowered by stripping in a context, I don't see a problem in that as long as people don't start assuming that´s what we all should feel. The greatest problem with feminism is that it tends to ignore women are individuals and feel differently about things.

now that it is degrading in two directions i agree. i sometimes wonder if prostitution is more degrading for the prostitute or the client.

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

the saddest thing at a strip club is not the dancers, no matter how burned out they are, but the hordes of slack jawed, braindead zombies who sit there and rape the girls with their eyes, and waste all their extra money.

Originally Posted by Glice

I think it's the little lonely mice underneath the stage, their slumber disturbed well into the little hours by humans doing things they just don't understand.

Originally Posted by Glice

This seems ridiculous from the person who put pictures of herself all over the internet, specifically this site. Which is to say that when you do that, you make yourself an object for 'the male gaze'. I would draw the line between someone posting an image on a messageboard so others can see what you look like and doing almost nothing but post pictures of yourself. Objectification doesn't stop just because the 'receiver' is absent, or obscure.

I've nothing to offer on the subject of strippers except that if it is degrading, it's degrading in two directions.

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

Sure! why not? and by "endless" you mean three or four pics every 6 weeks? I do not post hot lady ass as much as you would like I think.

Originally Posted by Glice

I agree entirely with all of the above; I just really think that, in the context of the above, it's a bit rich to do the passive-aggressive act of saying (essentially) 'I think stripping is objectification but you go ahead' and plastering yourself all over the internet to the exclusion of actual linguistic communication.

I am in a foul mood though, so I wouldn't take anything I say to heart (that's as true for today as any other day, actually).

Originally Posted by jon boy

it just seems rather ironic and somewhat ridiculous that you find strip clubs so offensive when you have posted so many pictures of girls in the past. more than every six weeks or so and more than a couple of pictures.

of all the people on here you are known as the ass man.

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

I never said I found strip clubs offensive I find many of their clientele sad and pathetic.. the guys for whom it is not a night out unless they hit the strip joint. seems very sad to me.

Originally Posted by Glice

Conrad: Alright, I'm being a prick; I don't really care, you carry on doing whatever. If anything I'd advocate to defend strippers or prostitutes or pornographers, mainly because I have friends/ family in those trades. Ultimately, I'd argue more that for me, personally, I'd really rather not have my pictures online, the point being that it's impossible to legislate for other people's comfort levels.

Originally Posted by knox

ill objetify your glorious cat.

Originally Posted by Conrad

Please stop exploiting yourself and that poor kitten! Have you no self respect????

Originally Posted by floatingslowly

I have no issue with other's (lack of) moral values. I just can't get beyond the non-value of paying for something that's FREE.

there's a world wide web full of tits just waiting to be looked at (at little to no cost at all). double-you-tee-efff?

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

I never said I found strip clubs offensive I find many of their clientele sad and pathetic.. the guys for whom it is not a night out unless they hit the strip joint. seems very sad to me.

Originally Posted by knox

that's why some of us have said it is actually degrading for the one paying.
is he not good enough to get tits for free or what?
or perhaps he enjoys the guiltless power trip that does not involve any emotional attachment?
is he the one that is so insecure that has to pay in order to be pleased not rejected?

I used to live in an area of prostitution and brothels, and often I'd find myself drunk talking to street hookers. I have heard enough from them from woman to woman to have an opinion now.

the sad thing is, when you're a woman it is all about choices. If you'd choose to strip, for example, you might gain a certain power and some money, but you'd lose a lot of respect from people, a lot of romance from men, a certain sense of self control, and some innocence. If you´d choose to be a career woman that demands respect and admiration, you'd win a lot of that, but you'd also have to lose some of your sexy playful sensual side in order to be taken seriously.

in general, society struggles to see women as beings that are both intelectual and sexual.

Originally Posted by floatingslowly

yo I think Rob just admitted to going to strip clubs to look at dudes!!

yr one sick fuck, Rob

Originally Posted by floatingslowly

before I leave, I wanted to mention that i'm also accepting pics of feet (no uglies though, thanks).

Originally Posted by Conrad

There isn't anything wrong with Rob being bi curious.

Originally Posted by floatingslowly

yo I think Rob just admitted to going to strip clubs to look at dudes!!

yr one sick fuck, Rob