but unlike punk (and you are probably talking about brit punk, because that crap was disposable as shit) noise HAS edition but not from the artists themselves but from the listeners, thanks to the internet.

true, in the early days, making noise was a whole lot harder and more expensive, so artists used to take a lot more time and dedication to their art unlike today, add that recording wasn't as easy or cheap as now and you can see why there was a lot more self-editing, when people recorded, they needed to record their very best stuff not just whatever they fancied; also, back then (as noted), if you wanted noise you had to buy records, cassettes, etc. but today, you can actually hear noise and decided whether is good or not, thanks to the internet; you can try as many noise artists and as many tracks by them and decided whether they are good or not, it takes a lot of dedication because there's so much stuff out there. it flips the roles as now the audience gets to be picky...yet, it doesn't happen because people still fall for the "LIMITED TO 25 COPIES!!!! OH SHIT I GOT TO HAVE IT!!! WHO KNOWS IF THEY'LL RELEASE ANOTHER 3" NEXT WEEK!!!"
mentality and bands get to sell their shitty music to people buying and paying as much as they wish, if they are buying it, why try harder?

all i'm saying is that if you are into noise and want good, quality stuff, there's a possibility to find it and trying out before spending money on mediocrity. plus, even if you spend money on crap, there's always ebay, where you can stick it to some dork who'll think he'll be belle of the ball at the next local basement no wave/laptop show.

now, on another subject, how about naming the best noise albums each of us have ever heard?

they are talented, they are great, they just dont have the self confidence, the motivation and the passion to pursue it.

lets start another thread for that

Go for it.

Actually Golden Child is right. Though to have that kind of dedication, passion, motivation, etc, etc, that fire, ad infinitum; is generally considered humanly impossible... Though that doesn't mean that it cannot be cultivated if one is so inclined and determined enough to pursue their inclinations. Talent usually dictates at what level of the field you will be playing at. For example, there are countless players in the English Premier League; but not all of them are earning Micheal Owen's or Alan Shearer's wages... Again there are also players in the second division and so on and so forth. All of these players are doing mostly what they like and most of them are probably capable of football ordinary people can only dream about, but the point is, they're all playing football... I'm sorry if I'm not making any sense, but what I'm trying to say maybe is, it doesn't really matter if you don't become the next Wolf Eyes or merzbow, if you really are dedicated and passionate about noise...

But this is total rubbish that has no tangible proof in the real world.Can you give me some proof of what you are saying?Sorry but statements per se interest me very little.I need to know what makes you think that what you've just said is right.

i'm sorry, that is complete feel-good self-help rubbish. i've seen so many passionate, motivated, confident, intelligent people continualy produce bad art that i couldn't even begin to tell you how many. and this includes people i'm studying art at university with, people who work hard, care about art, but over the course of the years their ideas and skills have not improved. whereas the talented people i know, can be as lazy as they like, or work hard, either way they still produce better work.

This is true. Talented people who are lazy and live off other people should be shot and fed to hungry people all over the world.

you think owen and shearer are only in the position they are in due to the amount of effort they make? no, they have innate levels of skill, and a higher potential for brilliance than almost anyone playing football on the planet. do you mean to say that second division players wouldn't like to be playing premiership or international football, that the only reason they aren't is because they aren't passionate enough? rubbish. this applies to sport and this applies to music, and eveything else.

it's all well and good to say doing something for the sake of it is enough, it doesn't matter if you're the best or the worst, doing it is more important. well fine, just don't expect other people to react kindly to paying for the pleasure of experiencing your shitty work.
(in fact not fine, if you're rubbish at what you're doing have the decency to keep your work to yourself)

original question.

i suppose it depends on what your defintion of noise is. i say yes why not.

yes, of course, there should be more noise, there's always the possibilty of there being someone who'll be an ace.

Well,my original question didn't certainly imply that there isn't talent out there.I've been going through many a record thinking:'Why the hell did i buy that?''.But that doesn't mean that there isn't good stuff out there and i'm the merrier for knowing that.

so let's name our favorite noise albums, thread is already started.

and i quote myself:

Again, I have to say that this is complete tosh. If only that were the case. Sure confidence and motivation are important and it's surprising how far arrogance and bullshit seem to take some people. But ultimately talent is pretty important and, I think, a fair deal of good fortune. Also, it helps if you know people.

Alas, I think (and this is in life in general, not just the arts) that arrogance, bullshit, nepotism and networking get you further than talent, passion and all that.

talent is subjective.

There is a plethora of musicians who are talented as musicians, not composers.

wHAT?????????????

Shut it,p.marras.I'll get you.

of course! like:

I know I shouldn't say anything, but I just can't help it... Basically, everyone here is being really contradictory... Most say that it's talent that should be nurtured, we want more noise records, let's hear more noise, but at the same time, you don't encourage anyone to actually go out and make any noise, this is like saying, please drop off a cliff, but try not to get injured in the process... I know there are probably at least a million people out there who have failed to make any significant impact whatsoever on music of any sort, at any given moment. Does that mean every mofo who wants to get into noise should be given a slap on the arse, a brief introduction and a curt warning to 'get it right'? Is this what encouragement is about? I'm sorry if I sound like I'm ranting needlessly, but it doesn't seem like this boy is being encouraged to make music. If anything, people are actually warning him to watch out if he decides to; which is a good thing; but, honestly, I see less of warnings and more of discouragement. Screw this, he probably doesn't even care, it's the motherfucking piece of shit internet anyway, nobody fucking cares.

and

*shudder*

well we aren't his nanny and he isn't a baby, there's no reason in particular to encourage anyone, and it's exactly that sort of nicey nicey, lets encourage everyone attitude that helps perpetuate the oceans of crap that most people seem to agree are what constitutes the majority of noise music. rigour is what is called for.

and who are you to say an artist isnt talented?

Right,i 'm posting from the point of view of someone who occasionally did music therapy for people with brain damage here.When it came to involve people into some music project or another,my job was not only that of spotting the degree of apparent interest into it that many of the patients showed,but also spotting the possible and realistic outcome of the whole experience.I can tell you with a passion that most people,even the most phisycally and mentally damaged ones,love being involved into creativity but get sommersed by their lacking of capabilities to size ideas and make them travel
a fruitful journey.And this i would notice on a regular basis while still being encouraging to them on many levels.

I didn't think this was about encouraging (or not) anyone in particular rather about the general state of 'noise' in general. And even if it was, no one is going to be helped by you-can-achieve-anything-if-you-put-your-mind-to-it type platitudes.

because when looking at art objectively and regardless of my own preferences of taste, it is screaming fucking obvious when someone is talentless if you look at the progression of their work over a period of time.

Yeah, yeah...but who is anyone to say whether an artist is talented or not. It's all subjective....

As it happens, I think the general trend of people releasing a load of cdrs and the whole scene is a positive thing. But that doesn't mean that there's not a lot of stuff that's pretty awful. But I applaud a general trend towards more releases rather than fewer...I think.

i think people have the right to express themselves thru music and noise and try to make the best they can and try as hard as they can to make it, if they believe in their music and they like it then more power to them and the best of luck but beware because people are merciless and they can fuck you up in a second.

that said...

most people who do noise aren't in it because it's their calling or because they like it even, if it was just a hobby and they would see the quality of their music in a complete objective perspective and realized that maybe it's not that good but they like doing it anyway, they wouldn't release it as a limited edition collectors' item and hype as such, they should keep it for themselves and whoever else wants to hear it. let's face it, most people playing music are in it for the glory, if not for the money (not that they will be millionaires but it's a source of income). everyone making noise now thinks that by releasing millions of stuff in limited quantities they will be these legends and influential people.

i say have some perspective and if people do noise, try to be original at the least.

and im not saying there isnt awful uninspiring noise, because there is.

i think we are all arguing over nothing because, we all are trying to say the same thing

Everyneurotic:i think people have the right to express themselves thru music and noise and try to make the best they can and try as hard as they can to make it, if they believe in their music and they like it then more power to them and the best of luck but beware because people are merciless and they can fuck you up in a second.

Porkmarras:But people say that cooking is an art.Cooking is a skill and IT IS NOT an art.A lot of people who know fuck all about stuff like to have an opinion on just about everything for the sake of chit chat drivel.They surely have a right to it but nevertheless they are speaking a lot bullshit.

Point taken. You generally speak truth, still, the opposite cannot be true, by the same logic.

You are a beautiful person and you have done a beautiful thing...

boring.

collectively: no.

what bad can it do to you if someone does it for the sake of their own fun and entertainment.

i also said that if people see objectively that their stuff isn't that good or original that they should keep it for themselves and for theirt own pleasure.

also, if people don't like what they hear, they can simply ignore it and go on to the next thing.

Thanks but my point is,enthuisiasm alone is simply not enough when it comes to being creative.You have to be cruel in order to be kind sometimes.If you are not objectively critical of your/somebody's work and you don't question stuff in a constructive manner,such work that you want to improve will only get worse.

A potential admirer, who for reasons just as good as any decided that he doesn't like Artist A, or whatever. The people with no knowledge have the most important opinions when it comes to any sort of art.

Talent is a fact. Interest is an opinion.

Talent is an ability. If you have an ability to play guitar very fast, or very creatively, or an ability to please many people with your art, you're talented. You can't just be talented 'in one person's opinion.' The question is merely whether that talent interests you. Thus, if he doesn't, the artist is subjectively uninteresting. Not untalented. And it's perfectly acceptable for anyone to consider any artist to be uninteresting.