Soros is a bastard. When I see Washington Post I want to vomit (yeah I have seen Clinton News Network talking about Washignot Post recommending Hill
for President earlier today).

do not know how are you percieving this campaing, but I see it as one mean, dirty campaign, full of insults and scandals only on both sides and nothing else.

the fact that I am saying this choice is no choice is my opinion with which most of you disagree. to me both are mess. unfortunately to me it seems like no choice. i am scared of that women equally.

I was just reffering to Severian surprise how he could be still running, so I thought of this thing called Celebrity Politics I saw in the leaked email above, which I found interesting and it actually make perfect sense, if you see how people are obsessed with celebrities these days.

if you think both candidates are the same you're either taking too many drugs or are seriously deranged

you say you see the washington post and you want to vomit but you don't bother reading the article i linked. it goes into detail about why they're at this point officially endorsing clinton. and no, it's not a "lesser of two evils" argument.

but of course you won't read it because god fordib you understand a different point of view. your head could explode or something.

just like you wanna vomit when you see the washington post, i wanna vomit when i hear trump speak and i wanna vomit when i read your nonsense in this thread.

fortunately this isn't your country and you don't vote here, so you can cheer all you want for putin's boy by pretending to be a neutral observer--which you aren't. your false equivalencies are just utter nonsense.

i disagree that trump endures because he's a celebrity.

he endures because he appeals to white working class voters who feel that the system is rigged against them.

this is a legitimate constituency with a legitimate problem.

unfortunately it's also compounded with scapegoating, racism, xenophobia, and all manner of absurdities just like nazism used the jews to blame for germany's problems. only now it's mexican rapists/drug dealers and muslim terrorists. and like mobutu he wants to jail his political opponents.

if i felt that trump offered actual workable solutions for the working class instead of lies and snake oil i would actually support him. but he's a scammer and a thief and an abusive psychopath lying demagogue. fucking wannabe banana republic tyrant. so no fucking way. NO FUCKING WAY.

Honestly that is only part of it, I think the celebrity and TV persona really are a major contributing factor as to WHY such white nationalists (as Nate Silver has designated this demographic) even remotely believe Trump is "their guy" is because of the TV character he invented for himself. It is entirely a fabrication of television that portrays Trump as a successful businessman (he is definitively NOT), a charismatic personality (which before "the Donald" was commonly accepted as NOT being in anyway true), or even knowledgeable person in general. There is a great Frontline that came out recently lending a biography to the two candidates which makes a good case for this.



Personally I disagree in the sense that while the economic decline of lower-to-lower-middle class middle aged white men has been a consistent trend over the past 10-15 years I am not sure that Trump in anyway actually legitimately addresses their concerns. In particular, I wonder if in many respects this economic decline is actually self-inflicted, not merely by decades of supporting "fiscal conservatives" and "supply-side economics", but also by themselves not as a work force stay up to date with the trends in their respective industries and seek the appropriate training or education to shift with the times. For example, many of these guys used to make their living in manufacturing, and while this sector is certainly not what it was before the 1970s it certainly isn't like the US doesn't manufacture anything, indeed currently 51% of the American economy is still involved in manufacturing and by total dollar value output US manufacturing is still by far the largest in the world. There are a currently estimated ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND openings in manufacturing that are STILL unable to be filled because they require certification, training, or some college education that these middle aged white guys simply didn't pursue. Had they not been such dumbasses many of them would be making up to six figures annually instead of scapegoating "libtards" for their woes..




To be sure the Germans had more legitimate grievances that white America even if the Jews and Russians were not in any way the ones worthy of taking the blame. I think that about 25% of Trumpites are outright bigots or racists, and the other 10-15% are those that still tap dance around Republican ideological talking points.


I find this statement very interesting as Trump seems to be the epitome of all the conservative slime and not just because of racism/bigotry but also the insistence on continually proven failed economic ideology.

@ suchfriends - your reply is quite extensive and my lunch just ended, and i have to get back to work, but yes to the (partially) self-inflicted part, voting against their interests and not pursuing education, etc.

sounds like the basic argument of "hilbilly elegy" which i've seen reviewed everywhere.

politicians however have part of the responsibility here. the educational opportunities aren't there or are too costly, or are left to the "free market" of for-profit universities that prey on the misguided, the health care system is a still a burden on businesses, unions were demolished, growing inequality and citizens united, etc.

germany with its consensus model is faring better under the same challenges. here, workers at the VW plant voted to NOT have a union so management doesn't know how to get worker feedback they way they do in their homebase.

anyway, part self-inflicted part failure of government policies but a decline anyway. and after trump university fleeced some hopefuls, the trump candidacy wants to fleece the rest.

Boom.

Just want to add that since I work with and deal with many Brexiteers (brit equivalent of trumpenproletarians) I see their psychology.

Some people are motivated only by jealously and status - they MUST see immigrants suffer. They dont give a shit about anything other than seeing other people suffer. Their jobs and careers are secondary to these overriding emotional states of envy and aggression. I have seen a guy work himself up into frenzied rage by mentioning middle class people in a part of the city where property prices went up who he imagined now put on airs and graces because of their wealth. This was an upper/upper middle class man. The only thing keeping certain people in the game is being able to rank themselves against others and project their fears and anxieties outwards through sneering contempt and aggression. They want to be able to control and limit other peoples finances more than they want their own (employees, girlfriends etc.). It is a mistake to attribute rational motives to these people. They want to see the white working class working as slaves on farms and fields - that's not an embellishment. It's about stripping people and humiliating them. Their wealth and positions means nothing unless someone else can be humiliated. I have watched people sabotage their businesses to pursue these goals.

so much hatred. no point argue with you.

I told you I heard about that Washington Post article earlier on CNN (and no it is not lesser of two evils arg.)

because I have opinion on her as being equally dangerous and scared of her makes me nonsense. it is just my opinion man. I have a right to be scared when I see all this anti russian talk coming from her mouth....oh, we got flat tire it must be Russians. maybe it is ok for you, but not for me living in the central Europe. don't give me that putin's boy bullshit! neutral observer? like you over there would not believe anything else unless it is comming out from CNN, are you actually owner of a passport?

I think this touches on the core superstructure of institutional and societal racism. Racism is a mechanism so that people can express a sense of superiority where otherwise politically or economically there is no such superiority. Poor white people, under the ideology of racism, can still feel superior and entitled when compared to "minorities" and so they cling to this ideology as a matter of self-identity survival! Their very identity and sense of "self" is defined solely in contrast or comparison to other races, in particular, the fabricated idea of racial superiority.

In order to maintain this racist structure, racists must continually work to strip down "minorities" maintaining the status quo. Racists by definition must take their privileges at the direct expense of other people.

Further violence, intimidation, and terrorism are key components and mechanisms of shutting down opposition and creation a national psyche of racism.

Definitely check out that recent Frontline, very very insightful perspective particularly in the Trump campaign because we all know a lot more about Hillary's history since she has been in the public eye for many decades now.


Many times the educational opportunities ARE there just not pursued hence the scapegoating. Those "for profit" predatory colleges usually fleece poor minorities and urban dwellers not the declining middle aged white male. I find it especially ironic considering many of these white nationalists ideologically support "pulling one's self up by the boot straps" approach meanwhile actually DO NOT do enough to pull themselves up by their own initiatives.

it's not hatred but righteous indignation.

and of course i own a passport-- you don't think i travel through UFO or teleportation do you?

putin is a gangster emperor for life and trump wants to be like him. fuck that shit. not in this country.

Anyone catch any of Trump's rally today? He finally got around to calling out the "global special interests" who control the banks and media. I guess someone slipped him a copy of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

Please trump. Just flat out say "Jews." Please. I want to know who agrees and where they live.

@ suchfriends - i see how he made a splash by celebrity but his endurance is something else. i'll look for that frontline.

btw did you read hillbilly elegy?

and yes to the analysis of the racialization of class sadomasochism-- it's true

Referring to debates in general, they always have just been an excuse and opportunity to create press releases and press copy for mass distribution, basically fodder for journalists and editors.. sure the television aspect changed the dynamics from just what is said to how it is delivered including things like tone of voice and body language BUT in the 21st century there is so much saturation coverage on TV and visual media that again now even TV debates are no longer necessary or functional.

The Lincoln-Douglass debates a perfect example of how the debate format is just a 19th century publicity stunt, transcripts and excerpts from this dominated the media coverage of the election of 1860, indeed Lincoln himself had it published as a book in time for the Election.

Remember the TV version of Trump had lasting success across several YEARS and was happening in tandem and simultaneously with the development of Fox News type sectarian programming.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/the-choice-2016/ (two hours very well spent)


No but I will check it out mos def, so long as it doesn't read as an apologist narrative (like so many discussions of white racial identity politics in US)

...so stop behave like a spoiled brat
really? i am surprised

wow.

so what happens if i tell you i have 2 passports? you'll have a seizure?

want to point out because its easy to forget but EVERY VALUE that right wingers prescribe eg. pulling yourself up by the bootstraps is not something they actually abide by. mostly these ideologies appeal to stupid rich people realizing the money has run out and staring reality in the face having suffered shocks to their sensations of control and power. at best they are ideals they admire in others. never have a met any right winger who lived by the shit they espoused. they are more likely to be old/lazy/greedy/rich etc.

again, its about seeing others suffer. when they see a foreigner do well because he's hard working they cannot fucking stand it.

thanks

and from what i've read (reviews anyway, will check out the library soon) he places the blame squarely on his people

e.g. hating the government and abusing food stamps at the same time

yeah, i am having one.
question is if you ever used one...

pffffft dumb troll

goodbye

http://www.newyorker.com/culture/cul...r-white-people

here is a great in-depth review (with extensive quotes) which I found interesting.. it seems the text goes back and forth between apologizing and analyzing, but that is understandable considering its an autobiographical narrative and frankly few white people have the balls to channel their inner Tim Wise and take all the blame without any scapegoating.

I am quasi-interested in this book after reading the quotes, I think I like the premise more so than what the text actually seems to be. I don't need to read about poor white people to learn who they are, i have some experience

I think Overlord Hillary is indeed a frightening war hawk in the same vein as John Kerry and some folks here might remember from all the way back in 2004 when I quite vocally said I preferred Bush II over Kerry (to which i was constantly berated, scandalized, and attacked) because Kerry was a downlow hawk who seemed to want to expand the war machine meanwhile Bush II seemed hamstrung politically.

However, I must confess, I too have accused you of being way too "pro-Russian" in discussions here so I must ask you honestly and openly, why do you seem to have such a positive view or opinion of Russia?

I mean, its everything that is bad in American politics but EXAGGERATED by increased and open corruption! Unnecessary and financially motivated wars around the world.. shady black ops interfering with several nations domestic politics.. absolute corruption to the point of essentially being the world's most lucrative oligarchy.. I mean if you are critical of Hillary or American politics WHY IN THE WORLD ARE YOU SEEMINGLY SUPPORTING OR SYMPATHETIC TO THE POLITICAL CESSPOOL THAT IS RUSSIA?

(SERIOUS QUESTION, NOT JUST NEEDLESSLY ATTACKING YOU)

A+++++++++++ WILL BUY AGAIN

im glad somebody shared this, i been getting a damn good laugh at this all week..

of course none of the "Millenials" are old enough to even remotely get why this is funny even if they are shown the original

pfffft. you guys don't get yr rocks off by discussing this daily and disgracing the classes you put down?

most of you make awesome points besides #*%&*. he is one big dick brain libtard elitist asshole if there ever was one. see, you're going to die and it doesn't matter. nor the human race. yr DNA tells you to fight to move on and improve but, it's a lost cause. change will happen. good or bad. yr erudite politics and arguments is just sugar for yr brain to make you feel good.

I saw this and it brought me great joy.
Ethically, I kind of *have* to be opposed to this kind of thing in general, but who the FUCK is impartial anymore anyway? Fox? No. fuckers.

This was good and it was necessary.

But I just interviewed a guy running for local office here, and he's convinced that Hillary's paying off the press. Reading this only made him like Donald Trump MORE. So... that's not ideal. But whatever. Keep 'me coming I say. Paul Ryan needs to speak up and formally support Clinton. You know he wants to.

Republicans have ALWAYS blamed the press because they can never jusr admit how frequently their candidates, politicians, or political tactics are reprehensible slime

I love how in this hyperbole era of sports and politics where every team is "the best ever" and every opposing politician is "the worst ever" i find it especially hilarious that so many folks from all sides are suddenly acting like news sources and media never endorsed a candidate before! All over the internet and commentary I hear people complaining about "a lack of neutrality" or "biased reporting" like DUH HAVE YOU PEOPLE NEVER READ THE NEWS BEFORE???????

HO-LEE-FUCK

i'm near the end of this frontline piece and i'm fucking *shocked* and the level of massive scammery that the carnival barker donald trump actually has carried out on the public.

it's INSANE. i had no idea--not of the depth and width of his pre-political fuckery. it's fucking outrageous. he fucked out not only contractors but fooled investors multiple times. i thought he actually had some business success but it's all fucking bullshit. my fucking god.

--

and to continue with the boxing metaphors, colbert (not don) king:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.fe22c898c854

i found it interesting that it was still very critical of Hillary Clinton's biography BUT it still kinda made her seem a sometimes sympathetic figure which i am not sure was actually what they were trying to do or if she just appears that way when the facts are put out there.

i gotta say i'm really impressed by her bio

like i didn'tknow about her commencement speech in college & her involvement in watergate etc, or how she had to adapt to survive arkansas politics.

i mean, she's been brilliant from the start, and i have to say i admire her resilience and determination.

---

also i despise trump even more now that i found he's a disciple of the nefarious roy cohn from which he learned how to operate. the worst. (yes, the worst, roy cohn. a nasty piece of work)

eta: and when i say the worst i mean the worst: https://www.thenation.com/article/king-cohn/

eta: for those who didn't see the docu;

https://www.washingtonpost.com/inves...65c_story.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/21/us...cohn.html?_r=0

i figured a political dude such as yourself would have known more about Hillary biography. I had known before about her lawyer years and then the Arkansas governor stuff.. she is really and truly a political genius, probably one of the most effective political strategists ever when you take it all in.. however the criticisms against her are all fair, she is deeply secretive, cut throat, and manipulative. also involved in some corruption too.. she isn't necessarily any more dirty than anyone else in Washington and hey politics isn't exactly a sunday school pageant BUT again the criticism is fair.

a couple of years ago PBS American Experience put out a more indepth biography of Bill Clinton but by default included quite a bit about Hillary, also worth the time albeit this one is four hours

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexpe...linton/player/

Even less well known than her bio is how damn charming she is one on one. She's a little stiff if there's more than three people in the room, but in the few casual conversations I've overheard, she's actually pretty cool. (Not cold.)

Propaganda, but still interesting:

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/page/podcast/


Here's a great interview on the wonky side with uberwonk Ezra Klein:

http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/pano...inton-45312395

no worries, I can see you are not attacking me.

no, no, no. I am not supporting or sympathetic with Russian regime at all, do not get me wrong. people here in CzechkoSlovakia actually do not have a fond memories on Russians spec. since '68 till '89 and their permanent military bases and their occupation throughout that time (we were allies). perhaps that's why people over here are more awake and do not trust US strong anti Russian rhetoric (now we are allies). we live next to Russia and everything here is fine. you can get their tv channels on cable over here too and you certainly do not see any indication of hostility towards US on their news. opposite. but man so much hostility against them coming out from our news, it is like completly different reality. do not get it. o.k let everybody play on their playground, look after and defend everyone's own interests, but please stop blaming and being aggresive towards Russia just because they won't bow down to our game and our way, it really might end up in a mess. and media back in your part of the world, man, even double amount of brainwashing with strong hostility-from-russians propaganda. just my opinion. o.k. fair enough, be vigilant, keep an eye on each other. but seeing Hillary talk anti Russian you get a feeling she is the one looking for a conflict, or US army chief threatens war with Russia...we will beat you harder than ever before. i haven't seen Putin or his generals talking that aggresive against U.S. publicly, did you?

I am not proRussian suchfriendsaredangerous but I think that hostility towards Russia coming from our side is unnecessary, dangerous and partial. or maybe part of some plan. and I still think US media brainwash you with Russia is aggressor narrative big time. again my opinion.

I know you look on yr elections more from a domestic point of view, me as a non US citizen and America being leading nation in the world from geopolitical point of view, that is why I don't like Hillary at all (her ties with Saudies and anti Russian rhetoric)...Trump is muppet.

Help me with something, will you guys?

In complete honesty I've been a Hilary supporter since the '90s, and I've wanted to see her in the general since somewhere around 1996. I voted for her over Obama in the '08 primary, and voted for her over Bernie this year.

But there's something I can't quite get my head around.

WHY ARE PEOPLE SAYING HOLLARY CLINTON IS A MURDERER?

I mean.. I've asked, and I've been given batshit answers... like "in the mid-'90s she went rightnubto peoples' homes and had them fucking executed" and when I ask, "which people and for whatnreason/purpose?" I hear "oh man, so many people, and because she's a cunt" (or some such nonsense)

I've also heard the super predictable abortion response. Democrat = babykiller, period.

But the accusation has been on many mouths over the last year, and I can't find any reference to any documented incident that might be construed as true by any stretch of the sane imagination.

Anyone want to help me out on this?

listen, I have posted one of leaked Podesta's emails and wanted to point out "Celebrity Politics" phenomenon and you went after me with some conspiracies and illuminaty bullshit again in ATTACK mode. if you do not like my opinion on Bazos Washington Post, or disagree in any way, can you please address me in more funny and mature way at the same time, rather then attacking me like a typical extreme left, millenial, hipster, prog., Hillary voting douchebag. I would prefer it more.

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