You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Drjohnrock again.

its not about finding a candidate you 100% agree with so much as those you don't have a fundamental and possibly even existential disagreement with. see?

Indeed i also find it totally ironic that y'all are attacking and dismissing me meanwhile I could actually be an ally to y'all even if I don't vote because if you really don't want Trump to win, then I can help you by doing your job. Even if I am not going to vote, the criticism that I express about Trump has the potential to convince some not to vote for him, or others to vote for Overlord Hillary if that is how they feel. Further, if I am critical of Overlord Hillary that is my right, would you rather we have a fraudulent election where we just vote for people without vetting them, without critically investigating their platform, policies, and history. Indeed, I shared a great Frontline that at least !@#$%!, whether he agrees with my politics or not, found informative and beneficial. See, he didn't just dismiss me outright and he learned something from what i shared, just like even if i am not voting I have learned from and enjoyed quite a few links y'all have posted here. That is why I sincerely don't understand why I am the bad guy here, what, do y'all think my not voting is honestly going to change the election outcome? REALLY? COME ON....

the down ticket elections are pretty important, though. "All politics is local", my ticket has gas and weed tax increases, extra money for veterans, allowing my local uni to manage their own investments, a couple of critical judgeships, fed and local reps and senators. If one doesn't know enough to vote on ALL of the choices, I think it is imperative to educate oneself to be able to decide with some sort of knowledge.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to ilduclo again.

as a Californian, literally almost all of the most positive things in my life, government related, came from local and state ballot measures and propositions.

That's not the opposite of what I'm saying.
Well, saying people should ONLY vote for propositions and ballot measures is close to the opposite of what I'm saying, but it's not the opposite.

I'm saying: there's always a prop or a local judicial election that I don't know the first thing about. Usually I know about props and vote accordingly, but if I don't know about these two dudes vying for a circuit court judge position, I'm going to leave that bubble blank.

I'm not going to weigh in on the election of someone who may someday — heaven forbid — be in charge of deciding my fate in court. What if I just vote for the dude whose name is the funniest sounding and he ends up being a fascist fuck who sends me to jail for some outstanding parking ticket?

That's what I'm saying. I'm not throwing in on something I don't know anything about, because if I don't know anything about it, how do I know I'm voting the way I'd want to vote if I did know about it? Granted this is only a problem if I don't pay attention to certain things, but Ive lived in HIGHLY populated urban areas before where you can't possibly know every goddamn candidate for comptroller or alderman.

To say you should ONLY vote for the local stuff though? Well... like I said, that's not technically the OPPOSITE of what I was saying, but I certainly don't agree with that at all. I do not feel that nobody should vote for legislators, reps, Presidents. I don't think you feel that way either, but when you say people should ONLY vote local, it kind of sounds like you're saying that.

Anyway, I more or less agree with what you're saying, which is that it's important to vote for the local issues, props, measures that you feel strongly about, and that affect you. I agree. And that's what I do. But I also think that people should become educated about presidential candidates and vote in those elections as well. Unless they're idiots. Or unless they're voting for absurd reasons (not liking the way Mcaine holds his arm or whatever).

I think that if you dislike Donald Trump and think he's dangerous and scary, you should fucking vote against his ass. You should do what you can. If Hillary terrifies you that deeply after thoroughly researching her platform, then vote against her. If someone inspires you, vote FOR that person. But if you hate Trump and don't want to see him become president, but you can't bring yourself to stand in line for 15 minutes to help keep him from becoming president, then my personal feeling is that you need to pull your head out of your ass and stop waiting for some Prince to come sweep you off your feet.

It is not a candidates job to sweet talk a citizen into getting off their ass and voting. This isn't a goddamn courtship. It's a (good) cabdidate's job to push for a platform that will change people's lives for the better. I don't think we as citizens are supposed to be wooed by candidates. We're supposed to consider what candidate is best for the country based on our own ideas of what progress is.

Long story short, it's your job to vote if you care. It's not Hillary's job to lure you out of the house.

There are so many things wrong with everything about our lives, it's unreal.

actually that PRECISELY and EXACTLY what her job is, its an election, DUH.

frankly if you support her its your job too if you believe i should vote for her and so far the combination of personal insults and attacks against me, my level of concern or intellect certainly isn't going to convince me one fucking bit.

politics fail on your part

tonight i am invited to speak at a protest rally against the Ethiopian government at USC.. do you think my job is to badger and harangue people into supporting my political opinions there? do you honestly think that would convince anyone there to support the political cause i believe in or would rally people to support the political coalitions i support within Ethiopia?

doubtful

This deserves its own thread, but since the issue of cyberwarfare has come up so prominently in the election campaign, I decided to post it here:

CYBERATTACKS LAMF!

I'm surprised Trump hasn't gotten hold of this story about the half dozen teens murdered this month around Brentwood NY, on Long Island, related to MS-13 (code for central america immigrants) gang violence. I'm surprised its not a bigger story in terms of teen culture, or maybe it is.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/...icle-1.2838750

http://abc7ny.com/news/remains-of-a-...twood/1565030/

http://patch.com/new-york/westislip/...entwood-police

Ah - no. It is not the job of a presidential candidate to *dazzle* or to *wow* people into voting booths. Too many of them try to operate like that, and that's how we get promises that are impossible to keep and voters who vote for big personalities instead of issues.

You are not a passive part of the process. You should be proudly voting either in favori of what you care about, or against what you know is dangerous to the world.

Yeah it's an election. It's not a blockbuster movie. You should consider it your duty to participate and you should take it seriously. If we only voted for flashy rock star candidates, we'd vote for Trump.

A DUH. Fail! Politics fail! (If that wasn't embarrassing for you then... that's too bad)

You mad about the hip-hop thread? Don't be. But don't be a dick about it. You're acting like American citizenship is like sitting in a strip club. Lap dance w/ touching or no vote! Way to joyfully shirk your responsibility.

And I'm not trying to get you to "support" Hillary. I'm trying to get you to do your part against Trump.

If you're not willing, you might as well be a Trump supporter.

Your level of apathy about the direction of the nation must be on fucking HGH if you'd rather do nothing than fill in a box to fight Trump. That's goddamn sickening. What battle are you winning there exactly?

(Also I'd like to remind you again that you said "duh!" And "politics fail!" Just in case it didn't stick the first time. Yeah. You said those things. Way to be.)

you talking in circles. if you want me to vote Hillary you need to convince of Hillary's merits and positions, period. this is how it works. its not new.


nope and than is being very disingenuous and politically lazy of you to say.


nope quite the opposite i love my country so much that i refuse to give a mandate to a power i don't believe in.


what sickens me is you have the nerve to blame me. ha!
i am winning the battle for my own personal conscience and peace of mind. remember i have the right to make my own choices, indeed is probably the ONLY right i or anyone actually have
i did and i will reiterate again if you can't convince the merits of your candidate that is a politics fail. duh.

again, yes its precisely their job, they want my vote don't they? you seem to want it yet you havent spent even ONE SENTENCE extolling the policy reasons i should support Hillary. not even once..


no i am not passive at all, indeed by using MY voice i am active and expressing my own power.


my duty is to do what i believe and what i believe is right. notice i am not in ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM trying to convince you or anyone else not to vote, simply sharing why i am not voting.


actually i am embarrassed for you because you still don't seem to be getting any of this.

not at all what in the world would that have to do with this discussion? indeed i wasn't even mad there either! sometimes my brother you get your signals crossed

Again, not trying to get you to support Hillary.

Repeat: not trying to get you to support Hillary.

This has nothing to do with Hillary.

I want you to fight Trump.

By not voting against (key word: against) the person you know is the worst possible option, you're essentially supporting that person.

Beyond me how you can be so vocally opposed to Trump but be totally chill with doing nothing to actually oppose him.

But yeah it's your vote, your choice, your voice. You can do what you like. I'm under no obligation to respect it or pretend it doesn't bother me. It's people like you, who know Trump is terrible but can't bring themselves to vote for someone who is more qualified and objectively less terrible, that scare me. Fuck, vote for Stein if you have to. But by not voting, you're communicating a message that Trumo isn't bad enough to move you to conpromise. That's what a ton of people here in the gutter of the world are doing. Nothing.

So I don't believe you much of a right to complain about Trump. Do you ONLY vote when someone perfect is running? Because that's never happened.

For the love of god stop telling me that I'm trying to get you to support Hillary. I'm not. Far as I'm concerned you're free to do whatever, and in free to feel however I feel about it. If you've made up your mind, then that's that.

But you're essentially Trump neutral at the very least. You should own that and stop acting like you're in some crusade to change the system. System'a not changing, and your refusal to act will do nothing to change anything. You'll have to look at yourself in the mirror after all this is over and think: I couldn't be arsed! Own that. There is nothing noble or righteous about doing jack shit.

Memes: the intelligent political discourse slayer.

repeat if youre asking anyone to vote for Hillary because you don't like Trump by every ontological definition you are asking them to support Hillary. are we both speaking English here or nah?

if not lets try it in a different one.

እርግጠኛ ነዎት መለከት አይደለም ምክንያቱም ሂላሪ ድምጽ ለእኔ በመጠየቅ ነው ከሆነ ሂላሪ ለመደገፍ እኔን መጠየቅ ሁሉ በልምምዳዊ
ትርጉም ናቸው.

እኛም ተመሳሳይ ቋንቋ የሚናገሩ ወይስ አይደለም?


edit.

how would voting for Stein stop Trump exactly? and yet somehow i am the one accused of not knowing what i am talking about?

እንዴት ስቴይን ለ ድምጽ መስጠት በትክክል መለከት ያቆማል? ነገር ግን እንደምንም ብዬ ስለ እኔ ምን እንደ ሆነ አላውቅም የተከሰሱ ሰው ነኝ?

ድምጽ ለመስጠት የእኔ ፈቃደኛ ባለመሆናቸው ሥርዓት ምንም ውጤት የራሱ ሁሉ መልካም, ቀዝቃዛ ከሆነ: እኔ አብዮት ዓይነት መስሎ አይደለሁም. እንዲህ እያለ እንደ እኔ ድምጽ ለመስጠት ሳይሆን ማንኛውም ሰው ለማሳመን እየሞከርኩ አይደለም. ድምጽ, ይህ የእርስዎ ንግድ ነው. ቀዝቃዛ, የእርስዎ አስተያየት ያጋሩ. እኔ በግሌ ከዚያም ድምጽ ያስፈልገናል የሚል አመለካከት ከሆነ ግን እኔ እና ለምን ድምጽ ምን እኔን ለማሳመን ነው. የዚህ ቀላል በእርግጥ, ትርጉም ውስጥ የጠፋውን በመጀመር ላይ ነው እንዴት እንደሆነ አልተረዱም.

Support for planned parenthood and the expansion of sex education in schools
Easier access to contraceptives
Increase in paid maternity leave
Banning the ownership of certain types of assault rifles and generally expanding background checks
Making community college education debt free
Immediately increasing national minimum wage to $12ph with ultimate aim of increasing it to $15

Suchfriends lives in California. His vote doesn't matter as far as electoral vote goes. And I doubt the popular vote will hinge on solely his opinion. Let the baby have his empty bottle.

Voting, btw, is called a "civic responsibility." Not a personal one. Stop treating your vote like it's your hymen.

You know, those of you who express ignorance on candidates as a reason for not voting? You have spent more than enough time on line in this forum to have learned plenty about them. In a harrowing 5 minute search, I found that one of our local judicial races had a racist ex-cop against a law degree holding consumer advocate. I didn't know anything about either, but now I've made an informed vote. Research is easy, not doing so, claiming ignorance and then not voting, while complaining loudly in on line fora is butt ass lazy

And let's not forget appointing progressives to the Supreme Court of the United States, instead of right wing nutjobs in the manner of Scalia.

Title 18. Section 2071:
“(a) Whoever willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, or destroys, or attempts to do so, or, with intent to do so takes and carries away (e.g., PRIVATE SERVER) any record, proceeding, map, book, paper, document, or other thing, filed or deposited with any clerk or officer of any court of the United States, or in any public office, or with any judicial or public officer of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.
(b) Whoever, having the custody of any such record, proceeding, map, book, document, paper, or other thing, willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, falsifies, or destroys the same, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both; and shall forfeit his office and be disqualified from holding any office under the United States. As used in this subsection, the term “office” does not include the office held by any person as a retired officer of the Armed Forces of the United States.”

not just the supremes but all federal judges

cabinet members

federal agency directors (from the EPA to the CIA)

board members and commissioners to the FCC and other regulatory bodies

ambassadors

also: veto power over legislation

also: the vp as president of the senate who can break ties

etc

I was just making allowances in the event that something does come up that you don't k ow about. That's all. I'm a voter, and I vote. The one or two things I don't weigh in on every few years are anomaly.

Who the fuck said you didn't know what you were talking about?
You are terrible at this. You always put words in other peoples mouths, and it's Fucking infuriating.

If anything, I'm saying that because you clearly ARE well informed about candidates, policy, what is and isn't at stake, that's why you should be doing your part to keep a goddam biggot out of the White House.

If I didn't think you "knew what you were talking about" I'd say (as I've already stated) sure! Go ahead and don't vote!

It's actually kind of a compliment, you stubborn shit!!

BLAM!!

and yes well said lololol


Some day my prince will come
Some day I'll find my love
And how thrilling that moment will be
When the prince of my dreams comes to me
He'll whisper, I love you
And steal a kiss or two
Though he's far away
I'll find my love some day
Some day when my dreams come true
Some day I'll find my love
Someone to call my own
And I'll know her the moment we meet
For my heart will start skipping a beat
Some day we'll say and do
Things we've been longing to
Though he's far away
I'll find my love some day
Some day when my dreams come true

Somewhere waiting for me
There is someone I'm longing to see
Someone I simply can't help but adore
Someone who'll thrill me forever
Some day my prince will come
Some day I will find the one
Though he's far away
I'll find my love some day
Some day when my dreams come true
Oh, please make my dreams come true

But this is not actually what Hillary did.
This is what W. Bush did. This is what Mitt Romney did. I'd wager Bill Clinton did a bit of this. But this ^ behavior you're talking about up here? Willful concealment? That's not what Hillary Clinton did. Hillary used a private server and there was overlap between personal and state information. But she turned over those emails upon request. Subjected herself to the ridiculous, over-the-top investigation and "minuscule" (according to FBI, via Politifact) confidential information was found.

At worst, and for all we know, she is guilty of mismanagement of information and perhaps being a goofy old bitty who isn't very tech-savvy.

I read the the emails as they were released to the public. My take away? Hillary Clinton is a pretty cool boss, kind of a space cadet (like my mother, who's about HRC's age), sometimes insecure, and unafraid to piss people off.

When W's administration deleted 2 million emails, it wasn't even NEWS.
When Romney did it when he was eyeing the White House, it DIDN'T EVEN COME UP.

Innocent until proven guilty. And there's not sufficient evidence to call her "guilty" of anything other than carelessness. And she cooperated with authorities and turned that shit over toot sweet. This is not a "cover up."

Everyone needs to shut the fuck up about the goddamn emails. When you know you fucked up and you do everything that's asked of you to make the situation right, that's not a cover up. When you knowingly hide information and then pretend it never existed (Bush/Cheney, Romney... Not that anyone's asking about them... oh and Truno... and Nixon...) THAT'S a cover-up. That's a crime.

The email fiasco is a symptom of suppressed sexism on a societal level. Just like Obama being blamed for the economic fallout of the Bush administration is a symptom of societal racism. It's a sick double standard, and the GOP is fanning the flames because they're desperate, and they're just counting on people being stupid enough to not think critically about the situation.

This! this! oh god, this!

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to demonrail666 again

You already knew everything he said.

The point has been lost.

no, you just missed the point entirely. i repped him because he is the only who actually addressed my posts rather than just trash me in reply

should i explain? i am probably just wasting my time because it appears everyone here just wants to bash me for trying to push the discussion into a substantive direction. this is my final olive branch.

my point? was this. the only way to stop Trump through the ballot is to vote for a candidate that can defeat hom. so if folks here or anywhere want me or anyone else to vote for Hillary Clinton, the only candidate that can actually defeat Trump, then it is your and their job to explain and defend that candidate's platform and policy. sure, i know what it is, but i still have plenty of qualms, deeply moral and personal, about Clinton. so, if y'all seriously have any issues with my not voting, then explain to me why i should be convinced to vote for Hillary. otherwise just leave me the fuck alone, i never told anyone here they shouldn't vote because i am not voting. quote me if i did.


its quite simple really, i am asking for a policy discussion. instead y'all just wanna make fun of me. cool.

grow up

Wait, did you read my PMs?

Of course everyone understands that it's Hillary or Trump. It's silly to even suggest that anyone didn't "get" that. But you talked about your choice to not vote as though it's anyone else's responsibility to make sure you vote. I didn't list off HRC's platform in bulletpoints because there's no point! You already know that stuff. I also didn't do it because my issue is not with you voting for Hillary, it's more like: how are you not so disgusted by Trump that you don't feel a responsibility to use your vote to fight him.

But I don't want to get back into all this slop. Obviously you were personally offended by what I said and I didn't want that, so I don't want to get back into it.

BUT now, because you asked for "good reasons" to vote for Hillary and you admit that Demonrail gave you just that, I'm dying to know if you're now open to voting in this election. Or if all that "convince me" business was just a red herring.

So... you say you got the answer you were looking for (good reasons to vote for Hillary), so... you gonna vote for Hillary? Did you getting what you asked for change anything?

no didn't say that at all, indeed i know enough about it to as i said not vote.
however if y'all wanna have a conversation about voting for Hllary lets talk about why to vote for Hillary simple as that.

what i appreciated about Demonrail is instead of just bashing me like everyone else and giving high fives to each other about it, he actually addressed my post.

my intention is that all of y'all who do vote who want to convince others you talk to aside from me to vote then talk about positives about Hillary, not the negatives about Trump.

Sometimes in politics, you have to vote for someone you might not necessarily like in order to stop a fucking egomaniac, bigoted, borderline-racist twat from entering office.

Demonrail made some good points about why you should obviously vote for Clinton in this race.

Also, I see today that Trump has vowed to pull ALL (yes, all. EVERY FUCKING CENT) of the US's contributions to UN climate-change programmes if he gets into office. So yeah. For fuck sake, vote for Clinton mate.

come on--evollove has some great fucking turns of phrase

that baby bottle + hymen thing was an epic burn

if you weren't butthurt you would have been laughing too. admit it, he's good

besides, it's not just good-sounding words, the concepts behind them are correct--it's civic not personal; it's about what's best from the available options and not about waiting for "the one"-- etc.

this is of course why the joke works so well. and maybe it touched a nerve, but it did so with good reason-- it really found the flaw in your position. it's not really about "your conscience," but rather what is best for the country. etc etc

and being a civics teacher you know the differences in funding of programs like wic and headstart, in judicial appointments, in environmental policies, etc etc

on top of that-- you ask for hillary's positives, which are in the policies she champions and you admit that she can get shit done. but hillary is not without context--things don't happen in a vacuum.

my position here is that trump must not just be defeated, but thoroughly humiliated, so that never again another monster like him is allowed to rise-- and the despicables know once and for all that the country stands against racism, xenophobia, willful ignorance and many other things too long and sad to list over & over on a lazy sunday morning.

to think that there won't be another like Trump is naive. The next one will be more stealthy, but will still be appalling