@severino - that would be the legendary liz hurley, ha ha ha ha.

@h8kurdt - im in the middle of season 2 and have seen no pippa. so went to imdb and there is no such character. who do you mean? do show

anyway i googled MARK SCHWANN who is the show's creator and it turns out it's an american producer who made a cw thing called "one tree hill" (never seen it). but yeah, it totally has a cw aesthetic ha ha ha--the writing anyway, so cheesy. and yet...!

I don't really watch it anymore, but a few years ago I really became entranced with BOY MEETS WORLD. Easily one of the worst shows ever made. And yet...

I kinda like the "...and yet" shows.

Can you believe Hugh Grant hired a hooker when he was married to that goddess? Really pretty tepid actor, but my god... the bubs and face!

I can honestly say that the only reason I remained in the theater for Austin Powers was because of her. Bad movie. Super unfunny. But... my god.

My bad. I had it in my head you were talking about The Windsors which is a send up of the royal family.

Well you were right on one count there.

However, Austin Powers is a great film

fantastic body, but i'm not really into her face, which these days reminds me of whitnail's




oh, i've never heard of that, but this one is also a send up of... something! it's a scripted production of the e! channel (the one that's all about celebrities. lol.)


austin powers was very funny!

anyway back to tv, i just watched the first episode of THE DALEK INVASION OF EARTH. old old old dr. who with an old toothless man who looks plucked out of the XIX century and calls everyone "my boy".

it's terribly made but quite intriguing actually. the story opens in the middle of some other plot, when he's traveling with a 60's couple and a 60's girl who called him "grandfather" (?). but anyway it starts as a kind of mystery or puzzled to be solved, kinda like in h.g. wells's "the time machine" when the protagonist (i forget his name) lands among the elois.

this is basically the whole set for that first episode, plus a couple other junky looking places



it's really primitive, and the dialogue is annoying ("my boy" this and "my boy" that) but the story is good so far...

----

eta: sooo.... i finally located the first doctor who serial ("the unearthly child") and will be ordering it soon. wooohoo! AT LAST.

Yah! I know the scenes on those early episodes were pretty suffocating, but I'm glad your finding something to like about it.

Just DONT STOP watching the new Who. If you haven't finished that first season I'm kickin' your ass, plain and simple.

haaa haaa haaaa

deep breaths man, deep breaths!

inhale... counting to 10...

exhale... counting to 10...

and stop talking like a sycorax

The unearthly child is either the empty child or the unearthly dead

this one:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Unearthly_Child

Oh OK, I was thinking you were talking about series 1 of the reboot. I don't think I've ever seen that one. I'm not a big Hartnell fan. It took Troughton to establish the Doctor as we now know him. Hartnell was really just doing his own thing.

hartnell is a kinda ebenezer scrooge looking guy to me ha ha ha

the thing is though it bugged me not knowing who this susan was or this couple in the tardis so i cancelled that to rewind to the very beginning cuz im a lunatic obsesso

yeah... :(

Yeah, he's a Victorian throwback. There's an element of that in most of the Doctors (Eccleston's the only one who has no trace of it) but they brought other things to the mix. Hartnell's just very one-dimensional.

I get the chronology thing, I sometimes do it with bands, but I'm not sure how useful it is with DW, or even possible, given some of the earlier episodes are lost altogether.

If you want to stick to chronology but don't mind skipping the less important episodes, I'd recommend:

Hartnell:

The Daleks - 1st time we see them.
The Tenth Planet - Introduction of the cybermen and 1st regeneration of the doctor.

Troughton:

The Invasion - Introduction of UNIT (key to the Pertwee era)
The War Game - Shows Gallifrey for the 1st time. The Dr exiled to Earth

Pertwee:

Spearhead From Space - Introduces the Autons (crap) and the start of the earth-bound Pertwee era where he works alongside UNIT.
Terror of the Autons - Introduction of the Master (If you find you like The Master, much of the Pertwee era is dominated by stories involving him)
The Three Doctors - End of the doctor's exile on Earth

Tom Baker:

Genesis of the Daleks (I know, Netflix!)
Ark in Space - Some still argue that, in terms of canon, it renders certain stories from of the modern era problematic (mainly End of the World, from the Eccleston era) It doesn't but still a good source of debate and an absolutely cracking story anyway.
The Deadly Assassin - Lots of political backstory. Sort of DW's Dune.

There's some great stories from the Peter Davison, Colin Baker (well maybe not) and McCoy eras but I wouldn't say any of them are really essential in terms of the Who-mythos.

If you want to see them at their best, though:

Peter Davison:
Caves of Androzani

Colin Baker:
OK, just skip him

Sylvester McCoy:
Survival

After those you could jump straight into the modern era, which is best watched series-by-series, with a pretty good grounding in Who-lore.

yeah, chronologies, i do it with music too. can't help it. "where does this come from?" sorta.

thanks for all that info! i'll investigate those names. first time i spot them.

i red that many of those lost episodes have been reconstructed, apparently they kept audio recordings and have been able to animate some of them or something. i'll have to look into that because it's kinda of a fascinating project. i mean whether it's well done or not i'll have to check out how they've done it. not for the episodes but the project itself. the wikipedia pages on the subject seem chock-full of information (nerds!) and i've only skimmed through them. got the impression that the serial on gengis khan is the only one really really missing data.

the other thing (you'll laugh) is that my wife really liked that black and white bit that we saw (first chapter of dalek invasion of earth--or was it london? ha, i confuse so much) so it's possible we'll wade through all that mess for a while, ha ha ha, regardless of usefulness.

and speaking of old and cheaply made tv shit, if i could get "strange paradise" in time for halloween season it would be awesome. i only have the vaguest memories of it and never understood wtf it was about but im sorta haunted by it. or at least curious as fuck.

I just finished re-watching DW series 1 (Eccleston)

I was hard on it when it came out but in retrospect it's not that bad. Still can't stand Mickey or Rose's mum, and the Slitheen will always be shit, but ... Eccleston. OK he misjudged the comedy but really comes into his own in the more dramatic stuff.

Something I still don't like - and which is true of nu-Who generally - is it seems far more preooccupied with making some often pretty cliched social comment - like the idea that mankind is being manipulated through mass media. Not to say there wasn't social comment in the classic era but it was always, first and foremost a sf series. There's something a bit too preachy about the new incarnation. And did we really need all the nudge-nudge-wink-wink suggestions that the Doctor is bisexual? And fuck off with trying to make the Daleks appear 'misunderstood'. And what's with three stories given to the Slitheen (who will always be shit.) but no room for a single episode with the Master? That's just wrong!

Fave stories from Series 1:

Bad Wolf/Parting of the Ways.
The Empty Child/Doctor Dances
Unquiet Dead

Anyway, all this DW chat has inspired me to go back through the reboot series so I'm on series 2 now, with Tennant.

i think the role of mickey or rose's mum is to provide a contrast with what's out there and why it should be so dismal to return. like when they're sitting at some half empty fast food talking about pizza down the corner.

i had no problem with eccleston, though maybe he was a little goofy for those accustomed to something else?

what was shit on season 1 actually was the writing, i thought. possessed mannequins? come oooooon! worst pilot ever.

im too close to it to give a full appreciation of the season, but i'll say this:

1) the ending was fucking great
2) the beginning was awful

Remind me to comment a bunch when I'm less driving! :)

Dr. Huh?

I understand why they're there, but they could've achieved that without making them so bloody irritating. They just kill every scene they're in Although in fairness Mickey does improve a bit in series 2.


Yeah, as the season evolved I thought he grew into it a bit more, especially the last stories/finale when I thought he was superb. I'd have liked to see him do at least another series. He's said himself in interviews he just got it wrong in that 1st series.


The Autons. Terrible! But yeah, the writing. I think this will always be the issue for those who prefer the classic era. The strength of the modern era is its attention to character. It does psychology and emotions far better than the classic era ever did, but the classic era (especially the Pertwee/Baker period) had far more going on in its stories. A lot of that is down to most stories in the classic era being 3-5 episodes long, so were able to get much more involved.


I agree.

And what did you think of Jack? I remembering him getting a lot of stick but I quite liked him.

ha ha ha, jack!

yeah he was brought on to add some necessary cheer and "heroism" or whatever. since rose is so helpless till the end, and the doctor a bumbling pacifist. so they needed a trigger happy "american" i guess. oh yeah the the wink wink sex thing you mentioned too right yes? like i was saying elsewhere, a lot of art is about gender these days as we're due for a massive software update.

as for mickey, i found rose's treatment of him more awful than his scenes. plus they make him look like a moron. token black, comedy fodder, and a moron. diversity! lol. for real can't wait to see idris elba as the doctor. or the long-necked woman who plays his wife in luther.

anyway please say no more about season 2 though, as i've just started it. though werewolfs and vampires is a bit, uh... tired. (just ended w/ the tony head/sarah/dog episode which, now im really curious about past episodes)

but yeah please no s2 or further ha ha ha. be kind to animals

I won't mention s2 after what you've seen so far, which means I can say School Reunion is a great great episode. It's really just a big shameless nostalgia fest with K-9 and Sarah Jane. who can't love K-9 ("we're in a car")? And I always have a little cry when Sarah Jane and the doctor finally say their goodbyes. But even putting nostalgia aside, the headmaster character is great and the Krillitanes seem pretty nasty. In terms of pure enjoyment it's one of my favourites from the whole modern era. I'd also say it's where Tennant really starts to make the Doctor his own

right, the headmaster is tony head who is giles the watcher in buffy. he's fucking great.

i read about that lady and she's dead. like really dead not the character. massive bummer. diagnosed on a february and dead in april. fucked up.

so those goodbyes look ever more poignant in retrospective

but yeah i look forward to seeing her episodes-- and the dog-- i'll get there... unless i die first :/

Jack has some great moments but, I dunno, I just don't want to know about that stuff in Doctor Who. It's not the gay angle but the sex angle generally. it just seems out of place in a series whose main character I've always considered as essentially asexual - not difficult when you remember the people who played him before the reboot. But it also goes for the companions. There were obviously plenty of crushes on Sarah Jane and Leela but the stories never exploited or really pandered to them.

funny story, im watching diary of a call girl or whatever it's called at the same time as dr who

as i understand the girl in question was also on both shows at the same time?

which is hilarious-- the call girl character actually colors rose a bit for me haa ha haa

and yeah the asexual thing makes sense/ would be fitting, but seems to me the cat is now out of the bag in that regard

though if you think about it, hitting on your assistant is pretty reprehensible per today's mores. power relationship and what not.

i smell a lawsuit, ha ha ha

Symbols -- you're right on on Season 1 of the reboot. Beginning: Almost not even worth watching. Ending: Super redeeming, best part of the season.

Now you'll get into Tennant, and soon you'll know why I flip out about this show. Hopefully.

The thing lacking in season 1 was a really stand-out episode, but then that series was always gonna be less about blowing minds and more about the writers, actors, producers, etc, trying to find their feet: creating something that'd appeal to a modern audience without alienating those fans brought up on the classic era. On those terms I'd say they did a pretty decent job of it overall. (And hiring Tennant for series 2t was obviously the mother of all masterstrokes.)

Yeah, I guess you're right. Looking back, I remember that I actually liked Eccleston at the time. I mean, I never liked the v-necks or leather jackets, but I liked him well enough ("Bananas are good!") while I was watching it. It wasn't until I saw Tennant that I thought, "Fuck that other guy."

And there was some nice mythology-building with Jack and his evolving story, and what would follow on Torchwood. Honestly I think the worst part was Rose. She's just the worst companion of the modern era. Sorry. She continued to be a drag into #10 territory for me honestly.

you guys need to start a Dr. whodini thread ..... hahahahah

I finished the Handmaid's Tale, season 1.

Definitely some powerful fucking television. I almost hesitate to recommend it to anyone who, like me, harbors some semi-apocalyptic fears about the future of the U.S., because it will almost certainly compound those fears and make your sleep even twitchier. But it's quite good. A little overblown at times (how many more shows need to prominently feature Nina Simone's "Feelin' Good" in its near-entirety?), but those times are few. Mostly it hits the right notes, and manages to be subtly and realistically terrifying, bringing horror from hazy background into sharp, crystalline focus at the most effective times.

Now I'm re-reading the book.

I'm pretty sure it's going to win all those Emmy things. Which is fair, I guess, considering Taboo and Legion and the Young Pope were SOMEHOW OMITTED.

she's a bit neanderthal looking but in a hot way. i don't mind looking at her.

now i dont know what's with the mancrushes on tennant, he's alright but i dont think because he's a better actor, but rather because he's got a much better part written.

for one thing, he fights more, a lot more, and doesn't spare the meanies so much. and for another thing, he's now some sort of captain kirk space lothario, by the look of the last few episodes i've seen (a jelous rose and sarah jane and madame pompadour plus jack from the previous, looks like he's trying to breed back the time lords ha ha-- but i digress)

anyway i dont see the tennant magic, not yet anyway, i do see better writing though-- a whole lot better. it's on the writers though.

and yes please no advance prophecies to look out for nothing, ha ha.

speaking of looking out for shit, i really fucking detest the preview of the upcoming episodes they have at the end. way to ruin everything. i see a lot of british shows doing that lately. I DON'T WANNA KNOW. otherwise it's "thanks, fucker, now i don't have to watch since you gave it all away." so i cover my ears and close my eyes and go "laaa laa laa laaa" till the end credits come up cuz i really like the stupid music. yeah. ha ha. i like the music

This.

Please...

I loved her in most of season 1, when there was something quite heroic about her. But yeah, once she was with Tennant, there's little to her besides her infatuation with him.


I'd never say Tennant was the better actor, just that I think his overall manner seems more in tune with what people have come to associate with the character. The writing did improve but that may have had something to do with his interpretation being easier to write for. Eccleston was trying to re-invent almost every aspect of the doctor which he's since admitted caused friction with the writers - which was ultimately why he left.

hmmmm... i have nothing to compare her to because i dont know the previous companions (as i don't know the previous doctors) but i'm still liking her. i did hate the way she treated mickey the first season though ha ha haha. but bad wolf? hell yeah. in any case...


oh, i didn't know all of that kremlinology and that the character was so much his idea and that he interfered with the writers.

fucking actors trying to write! disgraceful. see: kirk douglas in spartacus (blech). see: donald sutherland in the buffy movie (the worst, ruined the movie). who was the director who called actors "cattle"? was it john for or john huston or... either way, yeah...

except for mike leigh or robert altman who worked with improvisation-- they got some awesome stuff out of their actors. but scripting shit? fuck no. en-ra-ha! lolololol

I don't know about him actually scripting anything but it's easy to see how his quite unorthodox interpretation would've been difficult for the writers to work with.I can also imagine the producers wondering what direction the show might take after three full series with Eccleston and if it was a direction they were that committed to going down. In a way Tennant was the far safer option, bringing the series back to familiar territory, while at the same time fully compliant with the show-runner's apparent obsession with upping the love-story angle.

Tennant is the better actor though. He is a much, much better actor. Not necessarily on the show, because I don't think Eccleston's acting was bad, but in general. Watch Tennant on Broadchurch or Jessica Jones or anything really... he's a pro. Classically trained. Eccleston is not terrible, but not at that level.

P.s. Check out Eccleston as Malekith the Accursed in Thor: The Dark World. He's just a walking pile of makeup. He's not even present. Anyone could have done that. Or no one. Not his fault though, I suppose.

Hmm. See, the way I remember it, Tennant actually wanted to do a Scottish Doctor, and the network vetoed it. Tennant opted for a specific kind of Cambridge accent as a substitute... that was the level of control he had at the time. He could pick the "style" of high British.

Then a few years later another Scot comes along, and they let him keep the accent and do whatever he wants, including wearing his wedding ring (which he refused to take off, and which the writers had to work with and around). I'll bet that got to old #10 a bit.

Tennant was delighted to have the role. He didn't take over. He wa doing Shakespeare in the Park at the time. I don't think he rewrote a word, and his opinions weren't solicited, at least not early on. He DID do some improvising though... I can remember specific scenes but I don't know where Symbols is at with everything, so I don't want to spoil it.

Sigh.

Anyway, I'm team Tennant. I've enjoyed every Doctor, and honestly once I'm in the middle of one actor's tenure, I am totally "with" that actor -- thought I would hate Smith, ended up crying when he left, which I didn't do for Tennant -- but when I think "Doctor Who," I think of David Tennant. :)

what's bananas about tennant is the proportion between his tiny chin and his mega-forehead, plus he has large eyes like a girl (or a character in the testament of orpheus) so that he looks more alien. whereas eccleston looks like a dude from a bar down the street. that's what i thought was cool about him, not in the relatability, but that he could look "normal", that being, hide among the masses. which is why his girlfriend is (in the words of the last human) "a chav." aaaa haaa haaa haa.

btw im in the middle of the cybermen story. which as i recall were called the robomen in early times? mickey ftw.

Rose was such a shit girlfriend to Mickey. I think they recognized the tokenism they were playing into at one point, and rectified that a bit, but I no -- no spoilers.

Rose really was a shit girlfriend though. Yuck.

oh yeah she's a shit girlfriend no question.