great grafics

ha ha, not really, what's actually cool is that we care enough about this shit to engage in rambling internet discussions about it

Dario Argento's Inferno was screening at the local theater here. it was nice to see it on the big screen and there were some nice scenes, but all in all i agree with I think Adam's criticism that it is a bit boring. And the plot is kind of silly.

Now that I've thought about it, I'd really like to see Ariel Rebel in a feature film or two. What a babe.

yeah i agree with that. i really like tenebre and profondo rosso as well as the bird with the chrystal plumage, suspiria is a beautiful film, but does drag on a bit. the bird also has a pretty good plot from what i remember. as i mentioned in a post aa few years ago, my problem with tenebre was the sound, the dialogue was super quiet and the music and effects really loud. and the edition of deep red that i saw was like half italian and half english and thus super annoying. but i still really like him as a director. i want to see opera.

I also agree. I've never liked any of his films completely. The closest I've got is probably with Suspiria and Deep Red. I dunno, he seems so preoccupied with style that, as murmur says, they tend to be quite dull in patches; as though the narrative's only real function is as a means of connecting a string of different set-pieces.

A bit of trivia about Inferno you may already know is that the film's underwater room scene (probably its most memorable) was actually done by Mario Bava, on Argento's request.

I'm sure I read somewhere that she's meant to be quite a fucked up individual. She seems to have been marginalised even within the Adult industry so I doubt if the mainstream would want to touch her. I think with a lot of them, their lifestyle and attitude is more of a hindrance to them progressing their career than their association with porn. There are a few I've seen where I've thought they could work well in the mainstream, then the stories come out about their fucked up personalities, drug excesses, etc. Not saying none of those occur in mainstream Hollywood, obviously, but I suppose it has enough problems of its own to deal with without having to cope with a lot of the human wreckage that gravitates towards the porn industry.

I still think some would be perfectly suited though, with no obvious lifestyle or attitude issues to get in the way. Although for the large part, I think they're the older ones who've seen a bit more, done a bit more and had time to come out the other end. (Nina Hartley, Evan Stone, TJ Hart, Ron Jeremy, Julia Ann, etc). The problem there, especially for the female performers, is that, if anything, due to the popularity of the whole MILF genre, there are probably more casting opportunities for them in porn right now than there is in the mainstream (which seems to largely forget women once they hit 40). I'm sure Shannon Tweed would make an absolute fortune if she signed with Vivid.

the underwater scene was really great. and i really really liked the scnee with verdi's music and the flickering lights. that was a really cool and unique scene.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlCM7TK_nhU

i had to sneeze 2 times hard in these movie
doesn't know if it has a psychological influence
not going to tell you what part

my home maybe tapped of by people
as i did trapped some people doing that

maybe people with those new frequency radio's
or bored people who those eqiupment

i always send your boredom back
here is nothing

my way of protecting my life for noses
seen alot on tv about tapping phones and hacking bancaccounts
don't understand much of it so
i do it this way

the funny thing is that in batman forever
the thought reading machine is beeing made
seen it on tv
they were working on a device that could read the mind and help the individual

I love that documentary.

8/10

9/10

7/10

8/10

4/10

Yeah, I actually found it quite moving. As you say, very inspiring. One of the ultimate feel-good movies I think.

I'm really surprised that you rated Stagefright so much higher than The Church. I'm quite a big Michele Soavi fan but I think Stagefright's one of those films that only seemed to get going in the last 15 minutes, whereas I thought The Church, though less brilliant than the end of Stagefright was much more watchable overall. The Church was the film that started me thinking that Argento might ultimately be a better producer than he is a director.

I would've sworn that Sabrina Salerno was in Stagefright, as one of the dancers, but I can't seem to find any mention of it anywhere.

Have you seen Mario Bava's Shock (sometimes called Beyond the Door 2)? If you liked Macabre it's also written by Lamberto Bava. A really underrated movie I think and probably the best role Daria Nicolodi's ever had.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbkqUk90U6I

I can't think what that film could be but the great with Bava is he made films to suit almost every taste. There's the traditional gothic stuff (Black Sunday), the campy stuff (Danger Diabolik, the Dr Goldfoot films), the gialli (Blood and Black Lace), the artier, more surreal horror stuff (Lisa and the Devil); the ultra violent stuff (Rabid Dogs) and pretty much everything else.

I like Planet of the Vampires but don't know if I'd recommend it as someones first Bava film. I'd say Danger Diabolik and Lisa and the Devil are better for getting a glimpse of what he's generally about. And if you like the 60s Batman TV series, you really have to see Danger Diabolik.

plus danger diabolik has one of morricone's better soundtracks if i may say so myself.

Fucked up individual - how exactly?




I'd cast her in heartbeat. Difficult to work with or not. :o

Planet of the Vampires and Blood and Black Lace are fantastic films.

just watched captain america and surprisingly didn't hate it

I'm sure I read somewhere that she had some falling out with the industry over some kind of drug-related lifestyle issues. Although I haven't found anything to substantiate it on a search I just did. She changed her image for a while and went pretty much all-out goth/fetish and was almost unrecognizable from her previous, more clean-cut/nerdy/manga look. So maybe the rumour was started by some disgruntled fan of the 'old Ariel' who took her new image as an indication that she was on drugs, or something. She also changed website and I know some site owners spread rumours about girls who, for whatever reason, stop working for them. She got an AVN nomination last year so I'm guessing things can't be all bad for her.

Man...you guys know a lot about pron stars.

Stagefright is the only Michele Soavi movie I've watched other than The Church so far. I found The Church’s story to be kind of tedious, or maybe I should simply say its execution, plus it’s filmed in a style too slick for my liking. Add to that that I am generally suspicious of movie ingredients such as witches, churches or any medieval imagery unless they are in films at least 40 years old or documentaries, and it didn’t make for fun viewing. I appreciated the references to ‘’Tenebre’’ in Stagefright, and I thought the movie’s pace made it flow quite nicely. Considering the story is pretty straightforward and there are no standout acting skills throughout it, personally I thought the setting held its own more convincingly than in a movie like Opera, where only a couple of really good scenes happen in front of the theatre’s stage, and most of the interesting action takes place away from it. Also, Opera’s ending is one of those WTF moments. When I last watched the movie with Melly the end made for a good ½ hour laugh.

I can’t find anything about Sabrina Salerno’s connection to Stagefright even on Italian websites. Didn’t she use to go out with Raoul Bova for a while? Maybe that’s the link between her and Michele Soavi. I had started watching ‘’Shock’’ a while ago but for some reason I was distracted by something and missed almost all of it. Will definitely re-visit it.

I think you nailed all the ''key'' Bava movies there pretty well. Rabid Dogs wipes off Tarantino's entire movie career in one long, low-budget car ride.

Did you ever watch this short but sweet documentary about ''Danger Diabolik''? Interesting comparisons made by Stephen R. Bisette between Bava's framing of images in a comic-like movie context and ''Batman'' and ''Barbarella''.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...42787231129368

Haha. Non-porn related but still sexy as hell, watched this last night ...



Dressed to Kill

I know Adam's a massive De Palma fan but don't recall reading his views on this. Besides maybe Body Double, this is maybe DePalma's most explicitly Hitchcockian movie (at least for me), although it's hyper stylised feel does remind me more of some of Bava's/Argento's Giallo movies (themselves obviously deeply influenced by Hitchcock, obviously). So a case of DePalma trying to be Argento, trying to be Bava, trying to be Hitchcock (who was probably only trying to be Fritz Lang). If that makes sense.

I was thinking about your comments on Argento being a better producer than director, and I was reminded that I kind of thought the same after watching the whole of a Giallo TV series he once produced called ''Una Porta Sul Buio'', which translates as ''A Door on the Darkness''. All episodes last about 1 hour and can be found on Youtube, albeit in non-subtitled versions. The series was commissioned by RAI TV after he made his first 3 movies, and all but one ('' Il Tram'') are non-Argento directed. His episode is pretty good, actually, and makes great use of a tram’s movement and its internal switching lights at night to frame the murderer, but ''Il Vicino di Casa'' (The Neighbour), directed by Luigi Cozzi and apparently inspired by Hitchcock’s ‘’Rear Window’’, has to be my favourite. I LOVE how the murderer gets caught because the two delivery men in the morning hear a baby crying who had been sleeping like an angel all night, miraculously, while his parents fell foul of their new neighbour after their car got them stuck inside their new, empty house overnight. It’s almost all filmed at night and the size and lighting of the building where most of the action takes place add that nice claustrophobic touch.

@Genteel Death

It makes total sense that if you're not into the whole Witchcraft/Medieval thing, you probably won't be that into The Church. Although on the Soavi tip, I'm surprised that you haven't seen Dellamorte/Dellamore (unless you have and forgot it was made by him), which I think is his best film by far.

I tend to think the problems you mention with Opera apply to most of Argento's films. They invariably have one or two really outstanding set pieces but it's the dead spots between them that ultimately let him down for me. Without wanting to sound like I'm belittling him (and in some ways quite the opposite), I think he'd be great directing quite high-end commercials or doing stuff for a gallery. Anything that lets him focus on his obvious visual flair while not having to bother with narrative or plotting, his obvious weakspot. Without currently being able to check, I'm sure he's done some promo or backdrop work for Agnes B.

My internet connection is really slow right now, so I'll have to look at that Bava doc later. It doesn't look like one I've seen before. Thanks!

Oh yeah, and it turns out Sabrina Salerno was in a film called Delirium, not Stagefright. I've no idea how I got them mixed up. As far as I can gather, there isn't any connection between her and Soavi at all. Maybe my wishing she was in more films than she is, extends to me imagining she's in movies that she never had anything to do with. Pure wishful thinking.

Yeah, that's the one. Many a joke about falling in love with the lizard ensued after last time I went to the cinema to watch it. He MUST have intended the ending to that film as a joke for sure!

I'll definitely have a look at those once my connection speed is sorted out (First World problem etc). I've watched a few Gialli in their original Italian and have to say that I'm rarely any more confused seeing them like that than I am when they're dubbed or subtitled. I'm tempted to think there's a level of sheer incomprehension to the giallo that's almost a condition of the genre itself.

Adam/Atsonicpark has a really interesting take on DePalma. Personally, I like his films but my ongoing problem with him as a director is that he seems to have trouble transcending his influences. Of that 'movie brat' generation, it doesn't take too much effort to identify the influences behind most of the directors involved but, while most managed to find their own voice too, I just don't think DePalma ever really has. I think Dressed to Kill is a great homage/tribute to Hitchcock/Argento but it doesn't really add anything particularly new or unique to them. In my opinion, obviously.

I think you got confused because Stagefright's title in Italian is Deliria, and some people on the internet seem to think Delirium is also another title for Stagefright.

Again, you make some good points about Argento's skills as a director. The thing is, Mario Bava and Lucio Fulci I concluded had a better way with Horror/Giallo than Argento because of how versatile as directors they were, and also because of how they could distance themselves from a particular style without becoming too repetitive or giving the impression it isn’t their own movies you are watching. Argento to me increasingly developed his films in a style too eager to please an international audience, which obviously can turn out to be a very good thing if you are not facing the limitations of horror as a genre, and the obvious limitations of being known primarily as a horror movie director.

Both Bava and Fulci were repeatedly involved in comedy and domestic movies which have had very little impact (for the best, trust me) outside of Italy because they wouldn’t make sense to an outsider. That versatility of Bava and Fulci reflects on many of their actors too, what with many of them having often switched roles almost schizophrenically from comedy to horror and soft porn etc.

Deliria makes sense. I've seen both films and they're completely different but Sabrina's role could've fitted into either. I have a strange obsession with her, Im afraid.

I think you're dead right about Argento's relative lack of range, which is frustrating because in interviews he seems far more interesting than his films often suggest; far more than a lot of filmmakers I prefer, even. I half wish he'd been more adventurous in his choices. I really don't think we'll ever see the best of him so long as he sticks within the limitations of horror movies. Those limitations worked perfectly for someone like Fulci but I think Argento's general style has always been slightly hindered by them.

DePalma has his cinematic ups and downs, but "Casualties of War", "Femme Fatale" and "Blow Out" are marvelously sensationalistic pieces of work. I'd throw "Carlito's Way" in there as well with its completely fatalistic and moving finale. Sure, they crib from here or there, but I find it hard to deny the momentum a majority of his films build up. Kinda hoping his latest work, "Passion"- which should get a Toronto Film Fest unveling later this year- holds up to the best and not the worst like "Black Dahlia".

I have to admit, I completely forgot that he made Casualties of War and it's certainly true that not all his films are simple homages to other directors but I'm still not sure he's ever really found a style of his own. Saying that, there's quite a few of his later films that I haven't seen.

To be fair to Tarantino, while I'd maybe agree with that in reference to Reservoir Dogs I think Rabid Dogs is simply too different to anything Tarantino's made since to really warrant a comparison. I'm not even sure it's that comparable with most other Bava films.


Finally got to see it. Great stuff. As interesting on comics as it was on Danger Diabolik. And definitely does a good job trying to undercut the whole camp argument. Great find.

Inspired me to watch Barbarella again tonight ...

I'd say Godard's point is far more applicable to Woody Allen. The interesting point for me isn't that a film like Stardust Memories was so heavily influenced by Bergman but that Allen was inventive enough to translate that influence into comedy. That's my problem with a film like Dressed to Kill. It takes the Hitchcock/Argento thing but only in order to make the exact kind of film we've already seen them do numerous times. Although I wouldn't want to sound like I think there's any kind of absolutes in terms of the 'right' or a 'wrong' way to use influences. There are plenty of films I love that'd contradict any such 'rule' (Body Double being an obvious one).