your idealism is inspiring, but I may be too cynical and jaded to truly believe this.

Maybe it's just my youthful optimistic mind but is life really that bad for most (I repeat, MOST) people that they need to kill themselves? I mean, your life is pretty great if you have shelter and food on the table every night. Now people starving in Burkina Faso or such other country, I could understand if they wanted to end their lives because they have nothing. Absolutely nothing.

And Kurt Cobain was a millionaire who lived in a massive house with maids to prepare him meals. His heroin addiction maybe lead him to kill himself but it's not like he didn't have the necessary support to kick his habit. He instead thought he would self-medicate with heroin to cure his stomach ills because he was too ignorant to get proper medical attention.

I don't know, maybe it's not that simple. I've never did heroin nor do I plan to.

shit, people don't kill themselves for material reasons, it's emotional, it doesn't make a difference if you live in burkina faso or kurt's mansion. poor people tend to appreciate their life more(and most africans follow religions which are against suicide) so basically fuck that.
i mean it's a pretty big decision to kill yrself so people who do it have thought it through, i think it's fine, if you don't want to live why should you? but it is still absolutely tragic because the person obviously suffered horribly before it happened, and it's going to be hard times for those around them after

Well I still stand by my opinion, though people can do what they like with their lives.

And I know it's emotional. But any problems people have can be overcome eventually.

Im not being faecetious but the fact that when my brain decays and dies means the end of my personality and being (or if you prefer to define those things another way, soul) is a greater motivation to keep going than the prospect of being judged at the gates of St Peter.

We, as human beings, have so much potential that to cut ourselves short over some problems would be a shame.

I agree Derek, but tell that to chronic pain sufferers, to termially ill people, to people who ahve no family, friends, support system and they just don;t care anymore.
Kurt Cobain became a junkie (from what I ahve read) not because he was a drug lover, but becauise he progressed in pain killers to fight his stomach/intestinal pain. Pain is a fucking BITCH, real, physical pain, or real emotional pain. It can and does become unbearable.
The man had a fucking FREAK as his support system, as his baby's mom. (courtney love ) can you imagine what support that crackhead would ive to Kurt? probably just more junk.

becoming rich and famous means everyone knows you superfluously, yet no one ever knows you close and personal. it is hard to maintain the friends one had before they got rich and world famous. it is hard to make new friends that are not sycophants.

kurt had no family to lean on right? I mean, they were all estranged pretty severaly right?

lets make it clear that none of the stories have said Jack Rose killed himself, the topic has just strayed off onto other tangent

true. Mr Rose died of a heart attack correct?

thats what it said when i checked back, i realised i was posting about suicide in a thread about someone who's cause of death i hadnt looked into

Well that's what I meant with someone hitting rock bottom. Something like that is what I'd definitely consider rock bottom since none of these things one can change.Well hey, this is quite good discussion. How often do you get that on here? Hahaha.

I just don't find anything "tragic" about a person who kills himself (aside from, you know, his daughter not having a dad!). Murder is tragic. Acccidents are tragic. Diseases are tragic. Just don't find anything tragic about a person blowing their brains out. Sorry.

So, one could inevitably question why I find Mr. Rose's death tragic. I'm sure he brought a lot of it upon himself. Still, I highly doubt he wanted to die. So, yeah, there's a big difference there, to me.

Regardless, joking about anyone's death is going to offend someone, but I just kinda feel like joking about Michael Jackson and Kurt Cobain is a bit different than joking about Jack Rose. It has nothing to do with whose music I prefer, I just feel like... Jack wasn't some rich-ass millionaire dude like these publicly-loved and -adored people, he was more just someone like me and you. Just a hard working musician. I dunno, I guess I feel more tore up over someone who is somewhat like me, than someone who has maids and has millions of dollars and has the adoration of millions of people. Jack isn't someone well-known, he isn't going to get tons of sympathy, no MTV news stories or magazine articles. It just feels kinda.. just.. wrong... to make fun of him in any way, to me. His life wasn't any more or less valuable or precious than anyone else's, but I feel like being cut down just as he was reaching some success after working hard for years is pretty damn tragic, to me. Maybe not to anyone else, who hasn't followed his career for years. But anyway.

...And you know, I probably wouldn't care at all either way, Rob's comment was just kinda retarded in general, as I've said elsewhere. I think Rose's music was the furthest thing removed from wankery I can think of. Just felt like a weird time to insult his musicianship..?!

....But that was days ago, let's move on!

let's don't forget the topic of this thread end enjoy this beautiful video from Lance Bangs: http://vimeo.com/8004926

NY Times obit (w/ my photo):
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/09/ar...Rose%22&st=cse

wankery is wankery, whether it is drone folk, bluegrass, metal, etc.

wank is one of the best parts of music

See? This thread only shows that there are people who STILL can't get over Kurt's death.

I listened to Kensington Blues this afternoon and Jack Rose from the dead.
Genius, he was!

Not to drag this out, but I really don't understand what you're trying to say here. I mean by lumping all of these together are you implying that anything difficult to play is by definition wankery? Sure, Rose's music was very 'complex' in a lot of ways, but it was delivered with so much beautiful directness of purpose that as far as I'm concerned it's pretty much fucking punk.

Wankery = endless guitar solos, overly-technical show-off bullshit.

Rose's music was actually quite simple for the most part (though the compositions were really well-thought-out and the songwriting was amazing). What he was actually playing wasn't too difficult most of the time, but yeah... no wanking at all.

I listened to OPIUM MUSICK this morning. Sigh.