everyone knows its butters! that's me!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZ9My-2KtvU

happy ash wednesday y'all

it's ASS wednesday, with that american apparel thread

ps - re: african-american

wikipedia to the rescue

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African...an_American.22

please people, read for comprehension before ranting:

"The term African American carries important political overtones. Earlier terms used to identify Americans of African ancestry were conferred upon the group by colonists and Americans of European ancestry. The terms were included in the wording of various laws and legal decisions which some thought were being used as tools of white supremacy and oppression.[124] There developed among blacks in America a growing desire for a term of self-identification of their own choosing."

"With the political consciousness that emerged from the political and social ferment of the late 1960s and early 1970s, blacks no longer approved of the term Negro. They believed it had suggestions of a moderate, accommodationist, even "Uncle Tom" connotation. In this period, a growing number of blacks in the United States, particularly African American youth, celebrated their blackness and their historical and cultural ties with the African continent. The Black Power movement defiantly embraced Black as a group identifier. It was a term social leaders themselves had repudiated only two decades earlier, but they proclaimed, "Black is beautiful"."

"In this same period, a smaller number of people favored Afro-American. In the 1980s the term African American was advanced on the model of, for example, German-American or Irish-American to give descendents of American slaves and other American blacks who lived through the slavery-era a heritage and a cultural base.[124] The term was popularized in black communities around the country via word of mouth and ultimately received mainstream use after Jesse Jackson publicly used the term in front of a national audience, subsequently major media outlets adopted its use.[124]"

"Many blacks in America expressed a preference for the term, as it was formed in the same way as names for others of the many ethnic groups in the nation. Some argued further that, because of the historical circumstances surrounding the capture, enslavement and systematic attempts to de-Africanize blacks in the United States under chattel slavery, most African Americans are unable to trace their ancestry to a specific African nation; hence, the entire continent serves as a geographic marker."

"For many, African American is more than a name expressive of cultural and historical roots. The term expresses pride in Africa and a sense of kinship and solidarity with others of the African diaspora—an embrace of pan-Africanism as earlier enunciated by prominent African thinkers such as Marcus Garvey, W. E. B. Du Bois and George Padmore."

---

so, suchfriends is a black panther, but the rest of the country took a cue from jesse jackson (she's got you son in her).

A lot of people on this board are clearly having an identity crisis.

"a subjective sense as well as an observable quality of personal sameness and continuity, paired with some belief in the sameness and continuity of some shared world image. As a quality of unself-conscious living, this can be gloriously obvious in a young person who has found himself as he has found his communality. In him we see emerge a unique unification of what is irreversibly given--that is, body type and temperament, giftedness and vulnerability, infantile models and acquired ideals--with the open choices provided in available roles, occupational possibilities, values offered, mentors met, friendships made, and first sexual encounters."

Interesting history, although phrases like, "Many blacks in America expressed a preference for the term," and, "Some argued further..." are problematic, particularly as no citations are given (or COULD be given for that matter).

Further, since my experience has taught me that any number of blacks reject the term, its ubiquity is in question.

Again, interesting, and thanks for posting, but I do believe I'll continue my unpopular plea for precise language.

couldn't we have a discussion about another book like Imajica, the Pigeon or Love in the Time of Cholera?





The Bible is such a lonely book...

"And Jacob served seven years for Rachel; and they seemed unto him but a few days, for the love he had to her."

"Then the elders of the congregation said, How shall we do for wives for them that remain, seeing the women are destroyed out of Benjamin?"

lol seven years. fucking amateurs.

I see you picked up on my point exactly. very perceptive ;)

I have been entasked with The Devil's Favorite Girl© for 13.

Job knows not of my patience.

but he knows of your frequent need for motherboard replacements. he told me about it.

I do not commerce with the devil.

it's a trick. get an axe.

ps: I would like my religious identity to be listed as "Grand Inquisitor".

Are you a Leo?

[chortle]

language is never completely precise-- think of it as defined by 3 vectors

one axis is chomki's universal grammar

another axis is social usage-- not everyone applies the same logic

the third axis is time, which causes drifting, evolution, and leaves many fossils behind--e.g., grammar-defying idioms & rules, the english subjunctive, etc.

besides, reality is so fucking detailed, absolutely precise language is by definition an impossibility-- read some borges. "the analytical language of john wilkins" is a good one.

here african-american is a political tool, i say power to those who've wielded it & fuck correction.

You quote one name in the context of linguistics, and you quote fucking Chomsky? What are you, a fucking idiot?

bloody chomsky.

I don't think you'd say that if you understood the deep structure of language. Then again, you'd be a fucking retard to take that utter horseshit seriously.

i actually love chomsky, well enough to give him a wry smile and wink if i ever saw him.

if you were less of a retard you'd see why i named chomsky-- it's not namedropping. it makes a point.

you write pretty, but you think like a fartbox. hence, a theologian.

Nah, he's ok. It just aggravates me how he's given precedence over someone like Dave Crystal.

oh fuck! fartbox.

glice's kid gloves are OFF!

For me, if you want to talk about the imprecision of language, you really need to be referring to the litany of continental linguists before you do Chomsky.

Alternately, fuck off twatbags.

bitch was asking for "precise" (i presume he meant "logical" language)

chomski dealt with the computing (logical) aspect of it, yes?

now please bring up dave crystal in a non name-dropping way. come on. summarize his relevance to this point maybe? do it for some future beer i might buy you as long as it's not warm or anything called "brown ale".

Crystal's position isn't that of imputing an inherent political logic to language; he doesn't absolve it of a political position, and he doesn't himself exist in a political vacuum. He's closer to the (impossible) academic ideal of observing language from 'outside', if only because his position is less palpably charged with a political project.

In terms of his logic, he's been a critical contributor to the OED for decades; as such, he has an incredibly intimate, yet perspicuous, relationship, to the muddy world of 'how language works'. While he inevitably posits language as a social enterprise, this enterprise is organic, atomic and often fuzzily-bordered; if he is 'prescriptive', it's an open and porous prescritivism, something I just don't see in Chomsky. Over everything, he's almost exclusively an academic of linguism, whereas Chomsky, while a brilliant linguist, uses linguistics as collateral in his broader project(s).

i love you x2

all this because some cunt started the "language" thing again.

also, i used i was an indian, but i CAN'T can i? so i gotta resign.

Were you in Horsham last Saturday?

the only time I have ever honestly heard ANY real black people use the expression "African-American" were all on television, and I even hang out with some pretty black nationalist/power kinda black folks.

are you their Token White Guy?

I wish. for years people kept assuming I was Cuban/Brazilian

it was yr rolling skills, I'm sure.

or are you saying that it is better to be thought of as a Token White Guy than Cuban/Brazilian? why?

I know a cuban but she tells everyone that she's from barcelona.

she has some seriously fucked up teeth.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to amerikangod again.

I once took a class called African-American Philosophy. I think most were, indeed, American descendants of African slaves, except Frantz Fanon who was African-Caribbean but I suppose you could argue that the West Indies is actually apart of North America.

Anyway, I usually regard the difference between the terms "Black" and "African-American" to be mostly superficial as long as who it is being referred to is clear. Ironically enough, as I alluded to before, arguing so passionately against African-American as a term is still advocating political correctness, just in a different direction. Calling African-Americans black people isn't going to make that beach house and smug multiculturalism disappear. Language politics is one of the "worst aspects of the limp-wristed sector of race politics" to which you still are engaged.

If people of Italian descent are allowed to call themselves Italian-American to designate teir past, then why can't black people call themselves african-american? They are americans with african ancestry.

I am Puerto Rican, and as such, american by birth, but I do not tell people I am puerto rican-american. I tellthem I am puerto rican, because that is where I was born, but if I was born in USA I would be more exact to say I was Puerto-rican-american.

american is not about color or race or ethnicity, or it shoud not be. there are plenty of people out there that will tell you that american means white, or natural born. fucking losers.

coffee is good

NOBODY looks like me.

When I looked at her thinking it was you, she looked at me and gave a smile. I should've realised it couldn't possibly be you because she smiled. :D