Yes that is what I meant.

do they even speak english in Alabama?


america has no lingua franca for a reason. The issue is not should people learn languages, but should they have to, and generally under most federal and state laws the answer is NO. So all these Pharisee legalistic americana tea bagged folks who claim "law and order" in regards to immigration issues are bigots and not respecting the laws of their own country.
in fact, the US federal government recognizes over 240 languages making US the officially most linguisitically diverse nation on earth. In most of Africa people speak five languages just to catch a bus and in Europe most kids go to school in English (which is a foreign language to Swedes and Germans isn't it I could only imagine the american kids having to go to school in French ;) ) , why should americans be so afraid of linguistic diversity?

because, as sebastián de covarrubias said when he published the first spanish dictionary (castillian, actually), "language is empire".

spain at the time had all a number of languages and kingdoms that didn't always play well together, part of forging spain as a nation was to make everyone speak the same (castillian) language. not everyone complied, galicians, catalonians and basques managed to retain some of their local languages, but the fascist policy continued up to the times of the monstrous dictator francisco franco who died in the 70s...

since then, the various spanish regions have regained some autonomy but i don't see the country splitting up or anything.

anyway, italy had something similar in the educational system after the country was unified, and pinocchio had something to do with it, i'm told.

ok. so yeah. manifest destiny, kill the indian save the man, all that shit = official language.

That's a very good question and, admittedly, I've given a lot more thought to the spirit of an official language than the logistics, which get much more complicated.

To begin with, I think immigration has to be controlled. At face value, it already is, but in reality, not much is done about illegal immigration. Many arguments have been made that America needs more immigrants than we legally allow, and those arguments may have merit. But if that's the case, then I believe we should increase the quotas to appropriate levels, rather than ignore the existing laws.

If immigration were better controlled, then part of the process could be establishing an English education program for those not able to speak English. And if that person does not follow through, then there could be a series of escalating warnings, fines, etc, ultimately leading to deportation after a certain number of offenses.

Also, let me add that I wouldn't recommend this for people already here. They would be "grandfathered" in. And there could be exceptions for people over a certain age, with learning disabilities, etc.

If, by "you" and "your," you refer to me, personally, then I agree with you. I am not the dictator of the United States. But if you mean the American people as a whole, then you are wrong. The criteria for immigration to the U.S. IS the business of the American people, and they DO have a say, just as the people of any democratic country have a say in their own immigration policies.

Up to this point, the people have not made English mandatory for immigration. And it may never happen, and if it doesn't, I will respect that 100%. As you say, in a democracy, you have to accept (and abide by) things that bother you. That doesn't mean I can't disagree with them.

Finally, can you elaborate on your point about half of the U.S. speaking Spanish? Where did that number come from?

The question isn't whether all that shit = official language. The question is whether official language = all that shit (it doesn't). The symmetric property of mathematics doesn't apply here.

i almost posted "and viceversa" but thought it unnecessary.

so yes, now that it's necessary-- official language = all that shit -- and more

it's always political, never innocent

god, you are some sort of fascist aren't you dear?

let me explain to you in case you don't already understand:

there is a reason why 'illegal' immigrants are kept 'illegal'.

seriously mang............they barely deport illegals and you think they should start deporting people because they skipped english class a few times?

just leave people alone and make them pay for document translation or interpreters when they deal with the government, that's what i had to do when i lost my passport and it works fine.....

yes please.

btw i really oppose calling people 'illegal'. I really don't see how a human being can be 'illegal'.

who sent you, Steve Poizner?

In the past ten years over a MILLION people have been deported, that is hardly "not much done"


amen amen. this is truly the smartest thing I have ever read on SGY..

what do you suggest calling people who's only difference from others is a lack of legal status?

Aw, I was hoping for 'education' camps.

many countries call them 'immigrants in irregular situation'.

'illegal' suggests criminal. someone's mere presence in a given territory cannot be considered criminal activity.

the irregular situation is the lack of legal recognition....


not everything illegal is considered a criminal act, as far as i'm aware(and i'm not a us. lawyer i could be wrong) immigration issues generally fall under civil code and are not always criminal offenses. http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ht...5----000-.html maybe that article of the legal code illuminates that. but as far i know they charge you more for monetary damage to the state than a criminal act. of course i don't think that's how it's seen, when i had border problems they definitely acted like we were terrorists....

anyways being picky about words seems unproductive when serious physical shit is happening at an alarming rate in arizona....do you know about sherriff joe? interestingly enough the problems in arizona are supposedly largely caused by a different breed of migrants "snow birds" in other words rich people from the northern states who spend a few months in arizona to avoid the cold, and decide they have enough invested in the place to vote for people who pass horrific legislations....look at this http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...gration-debate simply looking like a furriner will causeyou problems, with thousands of cops working in phoenix imagine how many times you could be harassed daily(!) and i don't know what happens to you if you left yr document at home before going out but i guess it's likely bad.

i think fussing over what words sound nicer is a politicians game and i don't really give a fuck about it,i talk the way people on the street talk. there was an issue here at one point that multicultural might be offensive and diasporic community is more inclusive, and i think only upper class white people cared.

maybe you don't as much exposure to united states media, but if were going to fuss over what people say i'd be more worried about the news exagerrating facts, or constantly repeating the "fact" that no one is bothered by illegal immigrants more than legal immigrants, maybe that's true in some survey they did of five douchebags who paid the DMV $200 for an english sounding name, but personally i've never encountered anyone(among furrners obviously) who cares how you came, and the tv stations spouting that shit here in cowtown certainly never asked my opinion.

my mother and i getting into the current country was a close call and if we had to do it the hard way i wouldn't be ashamed of the illegal title, it denotes a person who bypassed the law that separates the world with man made lines, that's not something to be ashamed of

Can you please explain what that has to do with whether English should be an official language in the U.S.?

So, that's 100,000 people each year, out of an estimated 8 to 10 million? That's as low as 1%. And I'm skeptical of it even being that many. Does that include people who were caught at or near the border and immediately sent back?

...........

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magic Wheel Memory Can you please explain what that has to do with whether English should be an official language in the U.S.?

what is wrong with you?

wellcharge - calling someone 'illegal' does not seem right TO ME because it sounds like a discriminatory exaggeration.

It would to a lunatical lefty pathologically obsessed with modern day marxism, commonly referred to as political correctness, but to the rest of us it's absolutely fine. So get off your fucking high horse.

Not that I agree with the post you're antagonising myself, I just want to point out that you're fundamentally wrong by throwing into the same sentence ''modern Marxism'', ''lefty'' and ''PC''. Firstly because Marx could hardly be described as a PC person himself, which surely must be a major drawback for a lefty who has intentions of becoming really obsessed with Marxism, and secondly because that obsession is also undermined by the intrinsically at odds political theory that links leftism, even more so in its current incarnation, with Marxism.

You're normally right, but in this case you're wrong. Can't be right all the time, eh?

Shouldn't you be out in the pub with the local tory youth club? You know, the same club where having that one thing in common is enough to let you afford calling someone your friend?

It's downhill all the way for you now that you've been wrong for the first time. You're going to be mostly wrong from now on. Shit happens.

you are absurd. its not about percentages, we are talking about a MILLION human beings, largely with families.. perhaps you need to go ask the wizard for heart, or at least a brain, or click your heals can go back to whatever bigoted, borderline neo-nazi commune you come from :(

wow this is impressive.
first time ever, i tried to be nice and suchfriends was cuntier than me.
i'm proud of you.

gotta watch out. sometimes ini rastafari kindle the fyah!

"in order for the iyah fyah lion burn fyah.. him haffe burn it ina onion bag, crocus bag and rubber tyah! Nyahbinghi! hotta fyah red red.."

...Did you forget about South America? Pretty sure they speak Spanish.

Am i missing something in failing to find anything remotely racist in anything Magic Wheel Memory has said so far?

don't think anyone said anything about racism.

Derek is a good man. Enough with the overkill, please.

a) I didn't realize it is derek, I'm not hip with all these name changes going on.

b) remarks of bigotry and misinformation speak for themselves, no matter how much we may be fond of the people who spew them :(

It's not the guy known as "Derek" on here, that's MWM's first name.

I know bigots. He is not one of them. That's my heart and my mind speaking, and I'll leave it at that.

No, people like you like to speak constantly about bigotry and misinformation.

sticks and stones.. I'm not hear to mash down anyone personally, but all that shit on this thread is ridiculous, and if y'all can't see it, y'all are equally ridiculous, and y'all ridiculousness speaks for itself.

i'm with suchfriends: there is such a thing as dangerous idiocy.

Thanks, Jenn. I appreciate that.

First of all, I did not say that I am IN FAVOR of deporting illegal immigrants. I simply said that the U.S. does not do much about illegal immigration. If the U.S. adopted a serious policy of identifying and deporting illegal immigrants, then the number would be far greater than 1% (if it's even that high now). We would not have sanctuary cities that deliberately protect them. Please do not twist my words or try to suggest that I am insensitive to people's struggles. You are not nearly smart enough or wise enough to have any idea what kind of person I am based on this discussion.

Also, you should not trivialize the word "Nazi." Do you believe that slaughtering 6 million people because of their religion is on par with the views I've expressed in this thread? Or are you just an anti-semite?

I'll be away for the next week, so if you'd like, we can continue this pleasant chat when I return.