But how could I forget about U2? They are really trying my patience and I swear to God if I ever encounter Bono on the srteet somewhere i'd punch him right in his pale Irish dick. He bugs me like no one else. So smug and self assured and pretentious. It makes me sick.

I like Dinosaur Jr. but I think they are over rated.

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I will kill you.

C'mon, the guy was nothing but a drunken wife beater.

"I'm drunk, I'm nobody. I'm drunk, I'm famous. I'm drunk, I'm fucking dead.
Big fat harry dead guy in a tub, there's your title folks."
-Denis Leary

Bullshit. He was a great writer with an amazing voice. I'm kind of surprised that you, someone who writes music, does not recognize that. Anyway, I never really thought of Jim as being someone who is "overrated." The only thing that is "overrated" is his image on t-shirts/how kids relate to him as "whoa the 60's man...party!!!" etc....not his art.

Yeah, I agree w/ the "overrated" t-shirt thing. & it's the same fucking pic of him over & over again. You know the one, the one of his arms out & he's wearing that red & white necklace. (It was in the Doors movie)
I just don't see how people can even think he is artistic, no offence.

He was extremely "artistic" in every sense of the word for whatever that's worth. His words/poetry are for real man....that's honest shit. Yr comments sound like you are making him out to be a fucking Backstreet Boy or something with no artistic crediblity. Anyway, I'm done. Blah......

What artistic credibility did he have. He just liked being drunk & fucking anything that moved. & how can I forget, showing off his dick. What's artistic about that? (just giving my honest opinion)

Dude, you are talking about his life, not his art. It seems like you are judging him not by his work, but by what he liked to do.....I never said he was a perfect person and neither was the man that you have quoted as yr signature. But seriously what is wrong with getting drunk and showing off yr dick? It has always worked for me:D. Ok....bad joke.

Ha Ha, I still laughed. But, I just heaven't heard any poetry by Jim that is a classic poem that everyone knows by heart. If that makes sense.

Now you do. I know practically all of his lyrics (which are poetry) by heart.

Also, just because people don't know yr stuff by heart doesn't mean that your stuff isn't "credible" or honest art.

True, but isn't great significant art suppose to resinate everything it comes in contact w/? His peotry just didn't do that w/ me.

Hmmmmm......you kind of lost me there.

What I meant to say was, No matter who, or where a certain piece of art comes from, it should be recognized everywhere by everyone as a great work of art.
& I just don't think Jim's art "resinated" the artistical landscape.
(if that makes any sense)

Back to Beethoven...

1.He was going deaf thanks to a nasty bout with Syphiilus, which was also starting to mess with his head and yet, he still managed to hide his illness for over 20 years...

2."Ode To Joy", written when he was completely deaf... This is not the work of someone who is over-rated. Anyone with that type of passion is someone worth their salt.

3.Beethoven was forced by his abusive father to become a composer. Mozart squandered his gift by writing pieces for the rulers of Europe whereas Beehoven's music was considered adult entertainment because of his fiery compositions. Mozart was the Nirvana of his time while Beethoven is more akin to The Stooges...While that comparison may seem a bit trite, it was the first thing that popped into my head...

I was going to lay into this and then realised that it would be stupid of me to do so...

Perhaps it's more Mozart - Radelescu, Beethoven - Xenakis?

I don't think Beethoven had Syphilis - his hearing loss was probably caused by otosclerosis and he died from either cirrhosis of the liver or lead poisoning or both.

Also, the Mozart comment is nuts. Every composer was writing music for leaders and nobility. Beethoven was certainly doing this. Ever heard of Prince Karl von Lichnowsky, Prince Franz Joseph von Lobkowitz, Count Rasumovsky, Friedrich Wilhelm III of Prussia, or Count Ferdinand von Waldstein?

Mozart didn't squander his gift. He may not have been as consistent as Beethoven, but he wrote a lot more.

more output doesn't exactly mean a better composer either. Case in point, a lot of people talk about Brian Wilson's genius when he's been in-active on and off for close to 1 and a half decades...He still makes wonderful music,but he takes a lot of time to put that much more attention into it...

Mozart didn't squander his gift, youre right, I just think he could've been a little less suttle...

As far as why Beethoven went deaf...Ok,maybe it wasn't syphillus, but in those times, it was a common side-effect of the illness...

Other than that, sure Beethoven had his works performed for noblemen and aristocrats,but of course, his dis-content seems more outright and outspoken...
The opening of his 5th symphony was a direct taunting of the hiearchy and their many supporters, whereas,The Marriage of Figaro may have had a similar impact, but it seems un-intentional from the way those events un-folded, or at least they way it's remembered historically...That could very well be fabricated, if so, it'd be nice to know...

Mozart was playing some light material, pretty and wonderful without question, but I still think Mozart's work isn't nearly as explosive as Beethoven's...