Aw, this argument would require a table, cigarettes and large amounts of alcohol to bash out properly. Basically I think you're right in essence but I also think that an interest in Sid Vicious (as I have) doesn't have to begin and end with his being a junky. He certainly wasn't a great musician (or a great person for that matter) but having seen footage of him at his best, he really did have one of the most amazing stage presences I've seen.

So it's not that we necessarily disagree, it's that we may be arguing from crossed purposes.

Sid Vicious is my God.

I HEAR YOU!

The Sex Pistols might not do much for me musically or else, yet their stage/tv presence and take on fashion is unrivalled.

I mean, purely from a fashion point of view they didn't even try that hard, they weren't exactly pretty looking guys, and also they had extreme bad hygiene that was often visible on band pictures. Still they had that little something that is soooo lacking in the way too many bands looked even back then.

Exactly!

I rarely find myself listening to a Sex Pistols record but find their whole story one of Rock music's greatest. There's a genuine sleaziness about them that really does border on the exotic. At heart I always think they were more Divine, than they were the Dead Kennedy's. In the best possible sense.

yeah, they had malcolm maclaren dressing them in gay bondage gear.

give praise where it is due

praising the members of the pistols for their "look" is like praising Rachel ray for the food she eats on her stupid show.

Clothes and stage presence are two different things Rob. You could dress anyone like the Sex Pistols and still that something would go awol.

ahhhh, but if you dressed any other 4 lowlife punks like the sex pistols I am certain you would get a very interesting stage presence, especially since 90% of the Pistiols vitriol and vibe came from Lydon.

You would not.

Funny that you mention Divine on this thread, 'cause he would have looked the shit if he played in a band.

They look the sex. Their songs are catchy. Idiots ape them (but idiots follow anything, so that's hardly a point).

Visual presence is not a bad thing.

Sorry for re-iterating.

is that amy crackhouse in yr avatar porks?

No it's not Amy Speedface, it's ElvisKate, who would also look great in a band. Boys this is how make up is applied to your faces. Like diarrhea.

Oh I'm so in the mood to start a Big Audio Dynamite thread.

Interesting point, but, for argument's sake, I'd say that Steve Jones was an integral part of the look/vibe of the Pistols, at least in their earlier days. It was, after all, the virulently heterosexual Jones who would be the most willing to wear the "naked gay cowboys" T-shirt. Very meh now, but certainly not in the climate of the mid-1970's in the UK. To put it into a US context, which band in 1976 in the States would have done that on a non-"art" basis? Richard Hell's the only one I can think of....any more suggestions?

Truer words were never spoken.

I was thinking exactly about Steve Jones, my favourite Pistol, when I posted earlier. I mean, the man was the least gay-looking dude in the world ever, he'd wrap his head in handkerchiefs and wear truck driver-like vests, and still he looked totally great. The cherry on the cake is also the fact that with that little effort he shagged more girls than a successful porn star.

he was also the one decent musician!

I think that you're talking about Glen Matlock.

Here we go again: "You must buy up more Gibson Les Pauls and Fender Twins before sharing Steve Jones riff tips with the man like Rob again".

And:

"You must give more Steve Jones shagging stories around before buying Sarram a drink at the King's Arms again".