I think that's what Glice is trying to say. Like British people are kind of 'afraid' of having ideals these days and they keep using the same boring money justification, instead of saying what they really think out loud.

But I guess, unlike for many of us, there isn't a sense that "democracy is something we (the people) conquered".

What do you mean? What do you find disturbing?

i agree pretty much with what nick said above.
plus, this video sums up the attitude the police is adopting more and more in london (and I imagine in other parts of the uk) when it comes to voicing one's disaproval.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eITZ-Rsc14&sns=fb

she is well fit though

protesting is a right.

and I agree with nik on everything and I understand what Nefeli meant now.

It's a dangerous idea, the idea that some people are better than others by birth. And they happen to be all 100% white too. The idea that we're providing you with a service with our theatre, we're protecting you from some unimaginable unknown danger, so we're entitled to live off your work.
Just because we can, and you cannot complain, otherwise we will arrest you. The less it makes sense the more radical they'll be.

happy international workers day, you cunts

Yes, elections are basically a total loss, and in African countries (and sometimes in the Americas too) they are generally quite dangerous and destructive wastes of time as well.



I try to make that point to Americans when discussing amnesty but across the color line most Americans are very much xenophobic if not blatantly racist. They are also bitterly naive. Here in LA we STILL have the residual racism from the Prop187 days and it fucking sucks. So many people still believe the myth that immigrants cost tax payers money simply because they do not pay federal income taxes. Illegal immigrants in the US contribute hundreds of billions of dollars to the tax system through sales taxes, state payroll taxes (even if on skewed books), property taxes (even if just in payin their rent, somebody owns the building and that person is paying some taxes on it), etc etc. Only racists jackasses believe that illegal immigrants are a net drain on our society, the Congressional Budget Office and the IRS release statistics every year that beg to differ.. Plus the economy as a whole booms because of exploitation wage structures..


Did you not see the crowds of people visiting the UK or the piles of endless crappy souvenier merchandise? Are you blind or just ideologically blinded?

And in regards to immigrants, societies and governments actually make even MORE profits from shit immigration policies, it maintains the status quo of exploitation. Further it makes both sides afraid, the nativists are are afraid they will somehow lose something and the immigrants are afraid they will get rolled and deported by the Gestapo..


Ehh, the UK invests approximately $100-150 million dollars annually on the monarchy, and while that sounds like a shitload, its really nothing. International tourism for people to come and take a quick snap shot in front of Buckingham Palace generates probably ten to a hundred times that for London alone! Again, the monarchy then seems to be a good investment for British economy, and further, extreme leftists aside, it seems that many Britons quite enjoy the sense of patriotism and commonality that the Monarchy gives them, one which we Americans simply do not have. Closest thing we have in the US is the blind allegiance to one political party, and that is hardly unifying, its actually more so divisive and insidious. The flaw in democracies is the lack of long term continuity, there is literally no time to make effective changes and progress as the political pendulum keep swinging back and forth between extremes like in 1984

Come off it, in Greece NOBODY pays taxes, the place is more corrupt than Zimbabwe ;)

Here in the US, undocumented immigrants generate HUGE revenue streams for the IRS and the states' coffers, as I pointed out above, in property taxes, in sales taxes, in skewed payroll taxes (ie, a corrupt employer falsifies their tax records to pay say regular taxes for one employee under legit SS# but actually have tens of undocumented workers doing the real labor, see you have to at least throw some crumbs to the IRS or they get very suspicious, after all they are not really that stupid or naive, more so just complacent)
And it being by choice actually makes you feel better? To be honest, that is the absolute worst part! In monarchies we can rightfully blame the sovereign, but in elected governments we have no one to blame but ourselves, and that makes it even harder to change things or accept them :(


Listen, I played the anarchist role sincerely for years, it only made me more and more pissed off. Inevitably I came to my senses and realized that, yes, all governments are pure evil. Of course the Crown is bullshit. They have a distracting media frenzy to make both the Americans and the Brits forget all about the bombing campaigns in Libya, Afghanistan, Pakistan and a dozen other concurrent places. However, you missed my point. In the scheme of things, benign govt attempts at mass brainwashing are far more safe than martial law and tanks on the street like in Syria. Personally, I'd rather have a sham society based on puppeteering and charades rather than a dangerous society where every asshole with an idea in his or her head feel almost divinely entitled to force that agenda down the rest of their neighbor's throats in the name of democracy? In that regard, the monarchy is then harmless. Besides, its not the monarchy that is waging war, the monarchy is merely a symbol, its the supposedly elected, democratic regime that is fighting the wars, and pursuing self-defeating "austerity measures" so who is the real enemy there? A harmless old lady that makes millions of people feel warm and fuzzy (and true, pisses off and alienates a whole other segment of people) or a bunch of crooks in suits and ties that kill kill kill everyday as if it were just going to the office?

I was talking about the wedding, such friends.
The costs/losses were greater than the profits.
And you complain about MY smokes, jeez.

Also, let's stop pretending that everyone who criticizes anything is an anarchist. It's a boring game.
Another thing, let's stop speculating that without monarchy tourists wouldn't be interested in going to the UK. That's bullshit.

so glice & suchfriends argue that the monarchy is good for "the economy" because people waste their money in shitty merchandise; that's like saying cancer is good for the economy because it keeps hospitals and researchers in business (it does--but is it?).

you misunderstand me. I didn't necessarily say it was the best investment, I just said it was by no means a loss, and in the scheme of things, governments waste a lot more money are a lot worser things, like war and destruction. At least this bullshit wedding made people smile rather than die in the streets :(


Were you even paying attention to this crappy Wedding? It cost pennies compared to the amount of revinues it generated, probably in bullshit TV ratings alone!! Again, I am not trying to say the pageantry is inherently good because it made money, just trying to argue against folks here who are saying that on top of it being morally reprehensible, it always was a loss of money which frankly is not true. I deal with truth, I would not lie just to support my own agenda or ideology, we have to call it as we see it. Sure, there are BETTER ways to invest $45,000,000 but in the scheme of things, couldn't we just be happier that that money was spent on a little over-top pageantry over say, yet another week of bombing campaigns in Libya (which cost approximately the same figures as the wedding). We can't be purists,we have to be pragmatic. The "elected" UK govt is pursuing nothing but austerity measures, so we can't honestly expect them to have invested the money where it belongs, so I say pick the best of the worse evils. We in Rastafari believe in doing the best you can where you at in the circumstances that are there, anything else would quixotic or even arrogant.

And the winner of the most bizarre comment on SYG ever goes to...

Not really, such friends. MOST studies show that even tho it generated profits the costs and losses (especially associated with the entire economy stopping with the days off) all things considered, it ended up costing them approximately 2 billion USD (estimates, of course).

Some like to claim it was profitable, but these statistics completely ignore how much the economy lost by giving everybody a day off.

Not that I care, that's not the point for me at all, just bursting your bubble a little bit.

you can't burst my bubble with ideologically tainted numbers that are frankly not true. Its alright my dear, I'm used to it, that is the only way Americans argue also, very little substance, mostly conflated or misinformed numbers games. Do tell me where you found this "$2 Billion" dollar loss figures, because frankly it sounds a bit nonsensical. Who honestly believes the economy shut down? It was a Wedding for Christ's sake, it wasn't the Sabbath ;)

Samantha Cameron DIDN'T WEAR A HAT!

David Cameron told Nick Clegg he'd had to have his trousers let out!

So you are denying that a country loses money when people take days off? Lol. Many businesses were closed for an entire week. Restaurants, bars and hotels are not the most significant part of an economy fiy.

Everytime people don't go to work when expected there is a revenue loss, sad fact isn't it?

The only way to call it 'profitable' is to ignore the 'days-off' factor.

We were talking to a neighbour about the wedding and she said that you have to support anything British because the country's being taken over by Muslims.

And that's when you should have told her you are a Muslim, a big bad one.

I have worked with the public a lot in my life and am used to ignoring stupidity. My wife however is increasingly intolerant of ignorance and pointed out very succinctly (and without recourse to physical violence) that she was in fact talking out of her hat.

I didn't say that at all, actually I'm challenging your inference that so many people really "took the day off" to the net loss of the economy? Again show me the numbers and I will shut up, but I don't believe you can ;)

I said they were estimates.
I don't have to prove to you that taking days off equals losses, do I?
DO I?

I like to make them feel uncomfortable.
But I don't feel bad about saying anything. I mean, if they can say shit like that why shouldn't I say what I want to say?

People often say things as if they're stating an incontrovertible truth and it wouldn't enter their tiny little minds that there is an alternative opinion. You're meant to nod and agree or join in with their nonsensical ramblings.

I vow to challenge stupidity at every opportunity.

Now let me get something clear: did we lose or make money through this wedding? I'm confused. One person says one thing, somebody says something different. Surely both can't be right!!!

I suppose this is why I'm always getting into arguments on the bus.

Did I make any money?:confused:

On the bus!? I don't know if I can do that straight away. I thought I'd start by posting anonymous notes through the doors of bigots and work my way up from there.

Depends on how you look at it and the interest of whoever is disclosing the numbers. There is a general consensus among economists that the profits made up for a lot of the costs, however, the economy stopping causes great losses that are very difficult to estimate. Most 'realiable' sources say the profits helped, but you still lost a bit. The most positive outlook is that the profits can make up for the costs, but still there wouldn't be anything left.

But I don't think that's relevant in the end.

I can't help myself if I hear someone saying something stupid, I guess that an obvious thing about me. If I'm in a bad mood I'll even tell off people saying bad things about the person who went to the toilet in a bar.

WHY DON'T YOU SAY IT HER FACE CUNT. Have some guts.

Whichever way you look at it though, we were all winners on that day weren't we?

That's the spirit.

sister, now you just sound either hopeless of stupid. Yes, you do need to show me the numbers. How many people took the day off versus how many still went to work or at least had a paid holiday? How many people went out on that day off and went shopping or just impulse spending and actually CONTRIBUTED to the economy for the day off? And lastly, you are the one who quoted these wildly speculated numbers of $2 BILLION in losses, and I simply called your bluff. Show me the actual numbers or I will just continue dismissing your opinion as ideological, and that is fine, you have the right to your own opinions, just please don't pretend they are factual if you don't have the numbers.

I'm not sure if you realise this but I'm not a research institute.
You can try and Google if you're really that interested.
I'm also not sure if you realise most people took more than one day off (some an entire week), or that 2 billion is not that much for an entire economy shut down for a few days. Or that nobody really knows for sure and it's pratically impossible to find unbiased statistics in this case. Or that ultimately I don't care because it won't change how I feel about it in any way.

Just to help knox out:

My family:
0 out of 4 didn't work (2 children didn't go to school, I wouldn't have been working anyway, Mrs Pookie would have been working).

We spent approximately £20 on various bits of food and drink.

My wife watched from about 10am to 11:30am (approx.)

The children were coming and going so we couldn't really count them as watching really.

Value of wedding souvenirs bought: £0

meanwhile...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/cutsandclosures

maybe you missed this part

Wow.

"A harmless old lady that makes millions of people feel warm and fuzzy"

Yes, that's what the monarchy is for.
Sorry suchfriends but you don't know what you're talking about.
Come back not stoned.

@suchfriends:

i don't think it's a harmless old lady that symbolizes the perpetuation of an absurd class system that perpetuates privilege without merit, but if you're fine eating crumbs from the master's table then by all means enjoy it-- lots of people apparently do.

the issue is not if people in power are assholes or not. people in power cause a lot of damage-- some involuntary, some with forethought and malice. when power is temporary, you can replace the bastards for other bastards of your preference. you can even prosecute them once they are out of power. when power is hereditary and sanctioned by law, good luck getting rid of the motherfuckers (hello, kim jong illness #27).

democracy and elections of course do not magically eliminate the problem of political power in nation-states, and they have not abolished the monopoly of the state on violence, but that's an issue that goes beyond mere forms of government. a government is still a government and it's going to be a very long time until we have something less barbaric than we do--we might never have it as long as violence and exploitation continue to be part of human nature.

of course the current british monarchy is pretty much neutered these days (though it owns a huge chunk of the country though), but what it represents still stinks of the most foul and shitty absurdity-- that there is a class of people who is by inheritance better than the rest.

+