She was a bloody robot #robotlivesmatter

lmao yes it's super rapey in 2021 whereas in nineteen clackety clack it was seen as doing the manly thing when the lady doesn't know what she wants. the lines were different back then, it was no means no and she never actually said it, so if it doesn't fit you must acquit or something.

fast forward to today the role of the male is to dance and encourage the female to assault you, and then take it like a man, because at some point someone inevitably has to cross a line. "rape me, my friend" :D

but yeah also it can be explained as she's new to her own emotions and doesn't realize she wants him and he's teaching her, or something ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhh... mmmmm ehhh...

He also kills Roy after Roy bloody saves him. And what’s Roy trying to do, ultimately? Find a way for himself and his people to live more than 4 years or whatever, form memories of his own, be granted some form of personhood after years of slave labor

Deckard more like Dickard, long live Roy Batty

wat. did we watch same movie?

Yeah, that one scene is a massive blight on one of my absolute favorite Sci-Fi movies. And according to Sean Young, it might have been a dick move on Scott's part to get back at her for not reciprocating his advances. Yikes.

that was a fun read. her shitlist is long hahah.

anyway i wouldn't go as far as taking sean young's speculations as gospel, although what she says about the entertainment industry is absolutely correct. the "salt of the earth" people are among the crew. everybody else.... well...

and yeah the scene is weird, more so today than in 1982. this is why it's a perfect cultural artifact to observe the changes in sexual politics in the last half century. i think in "the postman always rings twice" (1981) there was also a violent initial fuck, although i can't recall the scene exactly.

also, remember in blade runner, at the end of the carnage, gaff saying "you've done a man's work..."

in any case, ***deckard doesn't kill batty. batty's clock just runs out***

Grain of salt of course applies to any claim. But it doesn't sound unlikely given the overall atmosphere in the industry, especially some forty years ago. She wouldn't be the first actress deemed "difficult to work with" after not playing by the fucked up rules some egomaniacs established. Of course, she's had her own set of problems, but given the shit that happens in the industry, I can see why.


Anyway. Yeah, I too see it as a document of the time it was made in. Doesn't make it any less cringey or fucked up though.





Yeah, that much is certain. The preceding scene in J.F. Sebastian's apartment made it clear that Batty was already experiencing accelerated signs of deterioration. He knew it was time to die, which might have factored into him saving Deckard - wanting to have a witness to his final thoughts and recollections.

yah, slavery was fucked up but "normal" back in the day. more recent than that, ever seen "gone with the wind"? sheesh...

anyway i remember watching br as a kid and going "whoa...." but it was more like "i guess that's how the grownups do it" lololol.

but anyway... we turned the scene into a talk-back moment and made fun of it this time around. plus, applied anthropology. definitely was not part of the normal flow of the movie but required commentary.


plus deckard drops his gun way before reaching the roof so can't shoot.

i like to think of batty recognizing a fellow replicant rather than looking for someone to witness him. and also achieving his "humanity" since he was bred to be a psychopathic killing machine (ofc funny thing the humans are worse. ) maybe deckard is rapey in the persuasion department because he's a replicant too (also he's the best blade runner as stated by bryant).

also the "quite an experience to live in fear" line (delivered twice i think in the movie?) i like to see also as deckard's waker upper.

Oh, the list is long. I remember picking out silent-era to roughly the end of the monochrome era movies as visuals for my events. I did scrap quite a few, because the racism/sexism/etc. was just too over the top. So much jarring content from a contemporary perspective - and often integrated in the most casual of ways, it was just so ingrained in popular media. One could make an interesting study on how certain depictions have changed over the years (I'm sure a lot of people have).



Never watched Gone With The Wind, though. For some reason, the prospect of watching it always seemed like a chore from the get-go. Maybe one day, but it'll be a massively uncomfortable watch.







I mean, both could apply at the same time. It is definitely a moment that proves him having achieved humanity. But I also believe he wants his humanity to be seen and heard. Having lived in servitude for a long time and breaking out of it, only to be met by a society indifferent to their plight and failing to grasp their (replicants) humanity - I think he desired to be seen the way he had come to know himself in the end.

He may well have recognized Deckard as a replicant. But I think whether Deckard was a replicant or not didn't matter so much in the way he perceived Batty and his crew. If Deckard was indeed a replicant, he clearly wasn't always aware of that and believed himself to be human (implanted memories are hinted at). Hence, he was there as a human witness to all the emotional musings of Batty - at least in the figurative sense. It could be a waker upper in many different ways. I think there are a lot of layers to this scene and that's why I love it so much.

I’m not sure, but check back. Roy pulls Deckard up and saves him from plummeting to his death. Killer monologue ensues. Then Deckard kills his ass.

The replicants want to love longer because the want memories of their own.
They’ve been mining on other planets or whatever for their entire lifespans.

If this wasn’t in the movie you watched, idk what to tell ya

hm no man. batty's clock just runs out. that was the whole thing of it. his biological clock shuts down. thats why he spiked his hand to keep it open. that was death kicking in.



(idk if this is the actual hand but that was an involuntary movement thing, yeah. first begins when he goes see tyrell in the shuttle).

Oh yeah lol ... what was I thinking?

Anyway, he was totally trying to kill him. But yeah, you’re right.

EDIT: I think I was incepted into thinking Deckard killed him because of some editorial I read about the rapey scene... I want to say it was in variety? But anyway, it asserts that Deckard is the villain and Roy is the hero, and I’d forgotten about it completely until just now
Should have known better though. I’ve seen the movie — in one version or another — like 20 times.

I have an excuse to rewatch Blade Runner now, so that’s cool

yeah it was his job to kill rach(a)el too but he wakes up to his own programming and they flee

the final cut is on hulu, it's really the best cut, everything in it makes sense

I honestly couldn’t tell you the difference between director’s and final. But as long as final has the unicorn (and no bloody theatrical-cut voiceover nonsense), that’s my jam.

idk what to tell you about this vs the "directors" but in previous versions there were plot gaps that made things confusing for me.

zora's scene here seems longer? (but i can't tell longer than which one). but it all meshes perfectly: there is exposition, there is foreshadowing, there is repetition, there is clarity. everything is just right in the narrative.

and yeah deckard gets picked up from the street, he just "appears" there, which is the whole point that we don't really "know" where he comes from.

What did you think about Blade Runner: 2049 btw.?

I have to admit, upon rewatch I started to actively hate it. It felt like a weirdly structured fanfic to me. The Ryan Gosling part of the plot I actually like to a certain degree, everything else I didn't care for much.

Plus: Massive downgrade in the visual department, as well as the soundtrack. Getting kind of sick of Hans Zimmer's renown, the guy hasn't composed anything original in ages. If he even does his composing himself (Around the 44 minute mark to around minute 48, then at 49:45 - wonderful piece of John Carpenter candor)

It was fucking awesome.

I don’t think I’ve ever had that much anticipation for a film in my life. It was like Star Wars for me. And I love Denis Villeneuve as a director. I think a case could be made that it’s one of the best sequels ever.

I’ve only watched it twice. Maybe I’ll cool on it eventually, but I was there day 1 in cinemas and pretty much just lost my shit for 3 hours.

You're in good company. A lot of people loved it. For some reason, it didn't quite gel with me. Had high hopes after I had watched Villeneuve's previous movie "Arrival" - which I consider to be a Sci-Fi masterpiece. But somehow, between the disjointed plotlines, major characters that appeared very late and then somehow completely took over the focus of the narrative, sterile futurist architecture under grey skies and Elvis holograms, I found myself baffled. The philosophical humanist approach was certainly still there, but I just didn't quite feel it as strongly as I did in the previous movie (aforementioned terrible scene notwithstanding).

i've got a radical feminist friend who detested 2049 on ideological grounds. i spaced out the discussion at the time so i probably couldn't repeat her arguments today, but an online search should throw results.

Well, full spoiler mode for any of the lurkers who might not have seen the movie yet: Ana De Arma's character is fabricated to be the object of Ryan Gosling's (I think his name was K?) desires and the rest of the female representation was either involved in prostitution, evil, bigoted, mainly someone the second protagonist is looking for or absent due to being a fridged formally pregnant macguffin - oh also brought back as a facsimile meant to tempt said second protagonist only to be killed off in an instant again. I wasn't too happy with the representation either. To be fair, a lot of that criticism can be directed towards the prior movie as well. However, I thought it was a bit less over the top and blatant there, barring that one awful scene of course. I guess, I just had some more updated expectations going in, knowing it's a 2017 movie.

Oh, and, maybe I dreamt that up, but wasn't it also hinted at that Deckard and Rachel were sort of destined/programmed to fall in love with each other in the sequel? I mean, wouldn't that completely undermine the humanist approach of the first movie - replicants being able to develop free will, a conscience of their own, if you will?

yeah a bunch of that started to get discussed here

http://sonicyouth.com/gossip/showthread.php?p=1349025

yeah a bunch of that started to get discussed here

http://sonicyouth.com/gossip/showthr...9589&page=1080

I see. That was my off-year.

Anyway, kind of enjoyed it in the theater when it came out, but left somewhat disappointed. Unfortunately, the rewatch only solidified my gripes. Really wanted to like it, but you can't always win. I did like the decision (again: spoilers) ...

to set it in some sort of alternate dimension/timeline though - made all the predicitions for 2019 a bit less ridiculous in hindsight.

Ok, that Elvis scene absolutely floored me, that was an iconic moment right there. The tension is insane.

I think the tension was one of the best things about the film. And how immersive it was, thanks to that incredible sound design and cinematography.
Of course, it was long, it did meander a bit, and it did “subvert expectations,” but I’m glad it did. If the whole thing was just a longer, slower retreat of the first movie, I would have been disappointed. The result was a pretty powerful “side quest” that provided even more context for the replicants and their collective motivations.

Also, I believe they thought there would be a third film at the time. Sadly, it kinda tanked at the box office (why did anyone ever expect a hard-R-rated 3-plus hour sequel to a cult classic to be a Star Wars-level event for anyone other than nerds like me?) so they may have designed the arc with that in mind.
It feels like it sets up a third volume that pits the machines against the Wallace/Tyrell directly.

But I’m not sure we needed a “War for the Planet of the Replicants,” so I’m OK with it just being one amazing film and one amazing sequel.

Exactly what they're expecting with Dune. That film/s is going to barely recuperate it's budget. I'll be there with bells on watching it, mind.

Gotta agree with Sev on 2049 too. A great watch is every way.

that's the nice thing about message boards, we can just pick up where we left off



haaaaaaahaaaaaahaaaaaaaaahaaaaaaa!!!! exactly :D


i wanna see dune. when is it coming out?

and for sure i wanna see 2049 again... overdue

i might need to buy a new tv for it though lolololololololol (i won't, but it's a very demanding movie in the visual side of things)

It was meant to be out last November or so but has been put back. Something about a pandemic or something. I dunno I wasn't paying attention.

It's now due to be released this October.

october! hell yeah i'm going to the movies... should be worth the wait

Enter The Dragon.

cyborg



easily one of THE WORST movies ever, but sort of perfect if you know what you're looking for :D

The Bridge Over The River Kwai.

It's madness.

Vertigo.

ended up rewatching miller's crossing. i liked it as usual, but it's not the best cohen bros movie. the best one... comes later. maybe fargo (hilarious) maybe no country (heavy).

It’s down to Fargo, No Country, or Barton Fink, I think.
The best of the black comedy Coens, the best of the intense crime-noir Coens, and the best of the abstract Coens, respectively.

i never really got into barton fink but otoh raising arizona has me rofl every time so that would be my 3rd pick even though i recognize/acknowledge it's not in any kind of lofty heights of intellect but it's just great.

Promising Young Woman.

Hell of a film, I’ll say that. Left me feeling pissed off and sad. It could have been improved in some ways, I think, but overall it’s an important watch.

Few recently watched:

1. Bloody Kids (1980)- Stephen Frears' film about two young boys (Richard Thomas and Peter Clark) surging through the nocturnal wasteland of new-wave dead end Essex, England after a prank goes horribly wrong is a masterpiece of anarchic energy. With a propulsive soundtrack that swaggers from inspired spaghetti-western theatrics to thudding heavy metal and a camera that swoops and glides around its characters with breathless energy, "Bloody Kids" captivates from the very opening. It only gets better when one of the young boys hooks up with a group of older men and women (led by the manics of Gary Holton) and the film sinks into an orgy of anti-establishment nose thumbing and petty criminality. Made for television and released in 1980, this is a film that deserves a rediscovery for its nervy ambition in representing the nihilistic attitude of punk rock Britain in the late 70's. For the record, the cops (and supposed adults) in this film don't get off easily either.

2. Papa, the Little Boats (1974) - One of four Nelly Kaplan films available on the Criterion channel. Psycho-sexual deception as screwball comedy. Not as good (or biting) as her previous assault on the bourgeoisie, "A Very Curious Girl".

3. Dear Comrades! (2020) - Andrei Konchalovskiy, now in his 80's, is probably best remembered for his long ago Hollywood action hits like "Runaway Train" and "Tango & Cash". With this film, he retraces the appalling tragedy when Russian soldiers opened fire on a protesting factory group. The violence is swift and shocking, and its black and white cinematography adds a layer of grace to the whole affair.

4. The Taste of Violence (1961) - One of my favorite directors to discover over the past few years has been actor-director Robert Hossein. Producing a string of low-key thrillers and bastardized westerns with nary a hint of release on any video format (or streaming) here in the US, it's somewhat thrilling to continue finding small gems like this, as if I'm the only one who knows about them. This 1961 western tracks with the rest of his work, barreling though a variety of themes such as the almost wordless anti-hero Hossein himself plays, a Stockholm syndrome kidnapping, and superfluous camera moves that feel needlessly pompous and so freaking perfect at the same time. Hossein plays Perez, the leader of a band of Mexican outlaws who kidnap the president's daughter (Giovanna Ralli) and then tear themselves apart with jealousy and greed over her return to other revolutionary forces. Often filmed with searing landscapes behind them and never afraid to shy away from horrifying tableaux (such as a group of men hanging alongside a cobblestone street like heavy piñatas), "The Taste of Violence" is a western quite unlike any other.

5. Luz The Flower of Evil (2018) - It looks pretty and all, but the idea behind this slow-burn psychological horror film about a devout rural religious "prophet" and the hell he puts his 3 daughters through isn't pretty at all. I wanted to like it, but just couldn't connect.

6. All Watched Over By Machines of Loving Grace (2011) - More Adam Curtis films will soon follow as I really dig the rabbit holes he often goes down. This three part, 3 hour documentary enraptures for the first two-thirds, and I don't quite always follow the strands he attempts to weave together, but his image selection and musical cues are second to none.

Hook

This was on the BBC the other day. Very good movie, with typical British sarcastic humour, and it really happened, well most of it at least. Highly recommended if you're into football and even if you're not you probably will still enjoy it