like you said, tatu was a fake commercial creation. I have seen a lot of teenage girls feel empowered that there could be some mainstream fashion diva that wasn't a bulimic model. That is important for them at this moment. I am not trying to discuss whos more subversive or what, Im just saying kids need that, and right now there is very little of that.

I am not a fan of gossip´s music, even tho I said it´s not bad.

I also think it is very important in the US to keep addressing the gay marriage issue.

I never deleted any posts. (except for one time that i double posted).

Also, I never said I was subversive, I think someone else did - as a joke.

you are just splitting hairs to be obnoxious and have an argument/fight that is utterly pointless.

Oh ok. Now I am seriously bored of this. Have a good day.

i just got around to looking at this thread. i haven't even read everythingthat people have written but i can say that ppl really need to stop berating knox, she actually does know what she's talking about. the gossip are making political efforts, stop being subversive and measuring them by the layer of success? what kind of board is this? what kind of music fan DOESN'T understand that music and politics can go hand in hand. the song doesn't necessarily change everything or anything, but it brings people together and provides an anthem.


i HATE katy perry, she annoys me so much...she put's herself in the traps of heteronormativity which the gossip are against. katy perry is only kissing girls in the context of the male gaze (i kissed a girl and i liked it...i hope by boyfriend don't mind it). it is not in the least bit subversive. i'm sure you already knew that that though...

same w/ tatu (although one of the singers does actually claim to be bisexual..it still doesn't count because that act was always only an act to get male attention)


actually, tits have been destroying most threads lately. i was seriously hoping to have one without boobs talk for once.

a lot of the times one could say sy verges on being political as well.
there is a certain political attitude implicit in arts, explicit or not.

in the gossips case, it is very explicit. fair enough.

I would just like to say that, hetronormativity or not, I fucking love Tatu. I even have the Russian-language versions of their albums.

I think the problem with SY is that they speak to the alternative crowd; another boardie pointed out recently that it would be more subversive if an alternative band didn't oppose America's foreign policy (cf Peace Attack)

well now we'd engage in a horrible long discussion on what is "alternative". but we won't.
sonic youth is a very famous band, with a very broad audience worldwide.
but this has nothing to do with this.

the term subversive is subjective. it refers to context, a subversion of the order in which one is inserted.

i always considered sonic youth to be a feminist band. songs such as flower and halloween - come on! its just not as overt.

and i also love tatu. i was just saying.

I suppose that is very clear in Kim's songs.
But there´s also youth against fascism and a lot of other less obvious examples.

sonic youth has a lot of cloaked references in their songs. they are not always overtly about a political ruler/movement etc., but they do have some prominent themes that i would argue are political...the no wave they grew out of was political, they have a lot to say about the record industry, they address the myth of the wasted artist, kim writes a lot about issues of gender and sexuality etc.

Look, girls, on one hand knox says that she is not being too serious, on the other notyourfiend would like more serious discussion about.....about what, exactly?

knox also has this way of prefexing a reply to her posts by someone who challenges some of her ideas with ''you want to have a discussion with me'', ''well now we'd engage in a horrible long discussion on what is "alternative". but we won't'' etc, which makes me think that when another poster's opinion is in clear contrast with hers, she suddenly tries to save her face by saying that she's bored, she has work, she's not being serious, and allthat crap.

That is no way to spark discussion. If you want to be listened to, you also need to listen to others. Yeah?

I don't want a serious discussion about any one thing in particular. I think that thus far this thread has actually gone somewhere. I just found that you seemed to be arguing with knox for no reason at a certain point. And she's getting all defensive.

If you want to be listened to, you also need to listen to others.


So we agree on something, pot kettle black.

The fact that I use humour to say something does not mean I am not saying something. You're just determined to disagree and you take way too personally. I am not sure if you have noticed, but this a forum and a thread about a band, not an debate or a comittee.

I don't really give a toss what you think about me.

When a poster decides to disagree with me more respectfully rather than acting like an arrogant faux intellectual, I will be way nicer.

I don't have to save my face as I don't see any of this as a competition.

Also, I don't think you had a point other than disagree.

Basically, all that you´ve said is that you don't think something is subversive unless it manages to change something? Be clear.

If you back to that post I made yesterday about political actvism, the one that was edited badly because of my phone, you'll immediately notice that knockers got ALL DEFENSIVE.

just be clear and stop being a baby.

how is it that beth ditto/the gossip do not carry a subversive content?

I don't really think you're saying anything.

Also, you are not allowed to call me bitch or little names that you come up with.

On SY's politics - I think the thing is, the band who wrote Confusion is Sex are a different, much more politically charged band than the one who crafted the Eternal. Again, I don't really believe that something like 'Youth against fascism' really says much - there are scant few white 'alternative' bands that don't oppose the vague cache-all term 'fascism'.

I think SY are still capable of gratifyingly political music/ lyrics - Female mechanic now on duty - but this decade they seem to have disappeared into more soporific territory. This isn't really a criticism per se - they've been playing music for long enough to do whatever they want - I just maintain that SY's properly political content is residual rather than active.

I think the problem I always have with the idea of political music is that Fugazi will always be the shittest band I can think of. So boorishly American in their opposition, it makes me wonder if this won't turn out to be the most politically influential song from an American in years to come.

And you are?
edit: knox

My name is Glice. Nice to meet you. You are...?

why do you think fugazi is that bad?

well i guess i am bias, because i sort of teenaged around that and skateboards.