Sonic Youth Gossip

Sonic Youth Gossip (http://www.sonicyouth.com/gossip/index.php)
-   Non-Sonics (http://www.sonicyouth.com/gossip/forumdisplay.php?f=5)
-   -   Ethnic, Racial, Religious, etc. Identity (http://www.sonicyouth.com/gossip/showthread.php?t=38144)

floatingslowly 02.17.2010 09:30 PM

oh fuck! fartbox.

glice's kid gloves are OFF!

Glice 02.17.2010 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!
if you were less of a retard you'd see why i named chomsky-- it's not namedropping. it makes a point.

you write pretty, but you think like a fartbox. hence, a theologian.


For me, if you want to talk about the imprecision of language, you really need to be referring to the litany of continental linguists before you do Chomsky.

Alternately, fuck off twatbags.

!@#$%! 02.17.2010 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glice
Nah, he's ok. It just aggravates me how he's given precedence over someone like Dave Crystal.


bitch was asking for "precise" (i presume he meant "logical" language)

chomski dealt with the computing (logical) aspect of it, yes?

now please bring up dave crystal in a non name-dropping way. come on. summarize his relevance to this point maybe? do it for some future beer i might buy you as long as it's not warm or anything called "brown ale".

Glice 02.18.2010 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!
bitch was asking for "precise" (i presume he meant "logical" language)

chomski dealt with the computing (logical) aspect of it, yes?

now please bring up dave crystal in a non name-dropping way. come on. summarize his relevance to this point maybe? do it for some future beer i might buy you as long as it's not warm or anything called "brown ale".


Crystal's position isn't that of imputing an inherent political logic to language; he doesn't absolve it of a political position, and he doesn't himself exist in a political vacuum. He's closer to the (impossible) academic ideal of observing language from 'outside', if only because his position is less palpably charged with a political project.

In terms of his logic, he's been a critical contributor to the OED for decades; as such, he has an incredibly intimate, yet perspicuous, relationship, to the muddy world of 'how language works'. While he inevitably posits language as a social enterprise, this enterprise is organic, atomic and often fuzzily-bordered; if he is 'prescriptive', it's an open and porous prescritivism, something I just don't see in Chomsky. Over everything, he's almost exclusively an academic of linguism, whereas Chomsky, while a brilliant linguist, uses linguistics as collateral in his broader project(s).

knox 02.18.2010 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!
language is never completely precise-- think of it as defined by 3 vectors

one axis is chomki's universal grammar

another axis is social usage-- not everyone applies the same logic

the third axis is time, which causes drifting, evolution, and leaves many fossils behind--e.g., grammar-defying idioms & rules, the english subjunctive, etc.

besides, reality is so fucking detailed, absolutely precise language is by definition an impossibility-- read some borges. "the analytical language of john wilkins" is a good one.

here african-american is a political tool, i say power to those who've wielded it & fuck correction.


i love you x2

knox 02.18.2010 07:31 AM

all this because some cunt started the "language" thing again.

knox 02.18.2010 07:32 AM

also, i used i was an indian, but i CAN'T can i? so i gotta resign.

Keeping It Simple 02.18.2010 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knox
also, i used i was an indian, but i CAN'T can i? so i gotta resign.


Were you in Horsham last Saturday?

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 02.18.2010 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!




"Many blacks in America expressed a preference for the term, as it was formed in the same way as names for others of the many ethnic groups in the nation. Some argued further that, because of the historical circumstances surrounding the capture, enslavement and systematic attempts to de-Africanize blacks in the United States under chattel slavery, most African Americans are unable to trace their ancestry to a specific African nation; hence, the entire continent serves as a geographic marker."


the only time I have ever honestly heard ANY real black people use the expression "African-American" were all on television, and I even hang out with some pretty black nationalist/power kinda black folks.

floatingslowly 02.18.2010 09:03 PM

are you their Token White Guy?

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 02.18.2010 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by floatingslowly
are you their Token White Guy?


I wish. for years people kept assuming I was Cuban/Brazilian

floatingslowly 02.18.2010 09:21 PM

it was yr rolling skills, I'm sure.

floatingslowly 02.18.2010 09:23 PM

or are you saying that it is better to be thought of as a Token White Guy than Cuban/Brazilian? why?

floatingslowly 02.18.2010 09:25 PM

I know a cuban but she tells everyone that she's from barcelona.

she has some seriously fucked up teeth.

SuchFriendsAreDangerous 02.19.2010 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amerikangod
I have no interest in reading anything posted before this page, but 'African-American' is a stupid fucking term and any spineless, white-guilt-having, I-summer-in-Connecticut-at-a-beach-house-where-my-family-has-a-pot-bellied-pig 'progressive intellectual' deserves a swift punch in the throat the second they utter it. Aside from being frequently inaccurate (and 100% inaccurate the second you leave the U.S.), it embodies all of the worst aspects of the limp-wristed sector of race politics. I mean, talk about fucking kid gloves.

A black dude is a motherfucking black dude.


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to amerikangod again.

pbradley 02.19.2010 04:02 AM

I once took a class called African-American Philosophy. I think most were, indeed, American descendants of African slaves, except Frantz Fanon who was African-Caribbean but I suppose you could argue that the West Indies is actually apart of North America.

Anyway, I usually regard the difference between the terms "Black" and "African-American" to be mostly superficial as long as who it is being referred to is clear. Ironically enough, as I alluded to before, arguing so passionately against African-American as a term is still advocating political correctness, just in a different direction. Calling African-Americans black people isn't going to make that beach house and smug multiculturalism disappear. Language politics is one of the "worst aspects of the limp-wristed sector of race politics" to which you still are engaged.

Rob Instigator 02.19.2010 12:02 PM

If people of Italian descent are allowed to call themselves Italian-American to designate teir past, then why can't black people call themselves african-american? They are americans with african ancestry.

I am Puerto Rican, and as such, american by birth, but I do not tell people I am puerto rican-american. I tellthem I am puerto rican, because that is where I was born, but if I was born in USA I would be more exact to say I was Puerto-rican-american.

american is not about color or race or ethnicity, or it shoud not be. there are plenty of people out there that will tell you that american means white, or natural born. fucking losers.

Rob Instigator 02.19.2010 12:03 PM

coffee is good

knox 02.20.2010 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keeping It Simple
Were you in Horsham last Saturday?


NOBODY looks like me.

Keeping It Simple 02.21.2010 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knox
NOBODY looks like me.


When I looked at her thinking it was you, she looked at me and gave a smile. I should've realised it couldn't possibly be you because she smiled. :D


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:47 PM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All content ©2006 Sonic Youth