sure, i dig me some Atari Teenage Riot. and conceptually they were mind-blowing... but so was Bikini Kill, and i don't see them on the list. i mean they sucked musically, but who can forget

Don't need you to say we're good
Don't need you to tell us we suck
Don't need your atti-fuckin-tude boy
Don't need your dick to fuck!


...all i was saying is that Meat Beat Manifesto - 99%, My Life with the Thrill Kill Kult - Confessions of a Knife, and Frontline Assembly - Tactical Neural Implant were killer albums and i would have put them on the list before Atari Teenage Riot.


someone should start an 80s album thread.

I think the 80s thread has been done. I think the thing for me with things like what you mentioned, or earlier on Skinny Puppy, Nitzer Ebb, Hunting Lodge etc is that they haven't aged well. I suppose ATR haven't aged well, but they came along when I was the right age to get into them, whereas the other stuff you mention is definitely the generation before, and as such more informed by 80s dance sensibilities.

I'm not really arguing, I just feel like this sort of music is as much to do with your age when you listen to it. I mean, does anyone think of, say, SPK or Whitehouse as radical any more?

Bikini Kill ... it's a good point. Great band, but this is a poll of this forum, which is full of women-hating misogynists. Seriously, start a thread about a woman and someone will very quickly start talking from their balls.

I think Bikini Kill may well have been among the last conceptually perfect rock bands, by which I mean that you could love them without ever hearing a single song and that when you did it fitted together perfectly. There aren't many bands that I can say that about. The Ramones? NWA? Pussy Galore? I don't know if I could say it about ATR but, as Glice suggests, maybe in their case it really was an age thing.

ATR... 3 Germans, one jap; Angry Syrian lady (who remains the most beautiful person I've ever seen), suicidal black man, gorgeous Japanese girl and georgous teutonic man. They played drum n' bass crossed with metal and gabber. They wore mostly black. They'd heard both UR and Slayer. Couldn't decide on the issues to shout about, so shouted about everything. Managed to set-up their own record label on money they siphoned from a major.

Everything about that band was perfect, to the point where they nearly didn't even need to have music. I'd personally put them above Bikini Kill in the conceptually perfect stakes. On a related note, you could put in an argument for Lolita Storm, Le Tigre and Chicks on Speed being pretty great concepts. It gets iffy at that point though.

Start the riot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1 2 3 4!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ATR!!!!!!!!!!!!

well, in defense of atr, when i heard them they were so much more aggressive and noisier than all the industrial bands i had heard at that point. plus, while most industrial and electronica was concerned with super sync'ed samples and the ultimate, most expensive synths, atari teenage riot were doing their shit while sampling riffs from nirvana, bad brains and slayer using presets on their drum machines and just letting it loose. it's the attitude mostly that makes me love atr above tons of electronic artists, but they also could make amazing anthems with their limited means.

60 second wipeout is another story, that's so accomplished, amazing breakbeats with textures inspired by the incapacitants and merzbow.

what bothered me back in those days about industrial is that it sounded really cheap, like mostly they just used skinny puppy dance numbers with ministry ragers and having guitars and synths all over. to me, atr didn't have much precedent, but almost all of them sounded like that old dancy synthy industrial mixed with the heavy, tortured industrial metal of the late 80's.

having said that, i dig a lot of those bands you mentioned and i agree one or two should have been on the list; i think the list has way too much pavement and beck on it.

still, i think we're still too close to the 90's to really give it a good evaluation.

I dont even know if bands like KMFDM mayve and Front Line Assembly certainly to be real industrial. Industrial to me is one of the best and most exciting genres out there; heavy electronics, fucked up synths, hypnotic percussiveness, and a sexyness that very view experimental musics can say they share. I get this vibe from Throbbing Gristle, Test Dept, Zoviet France, SPK, Hafler Trio, Controlled Bleeding, Clock DVA, etc... I do not get that from any bands mentioned above. Just me I guess.

Anyways, the Tyvek full length on Siltbreeze fucking RULESSSSS!!!!!!!!

shit wrong post

There is never such a thing as too much Pavement my friend.

~Jeremy~

i'm pretty sure none of those bands are real industrial either. the only real industrial music is luigi russolo's 1914 album Meeting of cars and aeroplanes. by the time george antheil ripped off all his ideas in 1924 for the ballet mécanique the whole scene was totally played out. fucking dadaist posers.

I think releasethebats just said Front Line Assembly wasn't "industrial" enough. they are called Front Line fucking Assembly for fuck's sake. it doesn't get any more industrial than that.

*waits like spider*


once "industrial" music moved from wax traxx/nettwerk to cleopatra's fucking tribute albums....it all went to shit.*** :(

well...that's not true...I still like/listen to skinny puppy (but I guess nettwerk is really subconscious now).


I was out of my vampire phase by the second grade.

true story.



*** the cleopatra skinny puppy tribute is saved from the recycle bin by having Download cover Download.

"Fuck with industrial music, you fuck with me. And I will FUCK you the FUCK UP. Capische?"

This is just silly. Silly, silly words. Front Line Assembly were called Front Line Assembly. It doesn't get more industrial than that. I know Herr Slowly said that already, but it really is that simple.

Wax Trax are the main people responsible for taking "industrial" music from being/meaning an interesting, variable and unpredictable art form held together by kindred spirits with a similar set of ideals for living (and not necessarily a common "sound" per se) and turning it into samey disco music for people in plastic pants and goggles. That whole scene has been eating its own musical tail for twenty years.

No VNV Nation for you then, Mr 'I hate new Industrial'.

In fairness, a lot of it is turd, but then I've always found there's a lot of things vaunted in the 'early industrial' lineage that is, frankly, shite. SPK and Death in June for two.

SPK were great at first, then severely diminishing returns.
I liked Front 242 in the 80s, but I saw zero progression from them. Just the same album over and over.
Death In June are a love them or hate them kind of a thing, but I think of them more as an apolcalyptic folk group than an industrial one, even considering their roots.
Sure, a lot of the first wave is crappy, but at least it's not crappy interchangeable disco.

I think the thing is, it's always a mistake to expect dance music to make sense in your bedroom. I wouldn't ever choose to listen to EBM at home - in fact, I'd be surprised if I had a single CD of it - but you can dance to it a great deal easier than you can Controlled Bleeding.

the worst part of it is that crappy bands like Pop Will Eat Itself didn't even realize this.

there was a half decent seattle band on cleopatra called noise box. i discovered them while looking for noise unit albums. they put out an album called monkey ass. they were the only guitar-driven industrial i could really get into, mostly because they didn't take themselves too seriously.

... aside from the collapse of wax trax, the decline of ebm style industrial started when mike scaccia from rigor mortis joined ministry. inside of two years even front 242 was playing live versions of headhunter with a guitarist.

vnv nation!!! i like their poppy songs, anyone know if they have like a whole record that's more soft cell with 909s than bang to the dude with icy blue contacts screaming about forklifts?

and spk, how can you deny songs such as "slogun"? shit, that was hard stuff even by today standards.

death in june, is mostly crap with some exceptions.