Originally Posted by her

Oh my gosh Alex. Stop using Jesus against Christians. You don't even understand what the bible says about sin nature. Essentially, socialism will NEVER EVER work according to the bible because it is human nature to be greedy and selfish. JESUS WOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN A SOCIALIST. Socialism assumes that people are generally good, and the Bible doesn't believe that, so stop trying to say what Jesus wouldn't do and go read a Bible. PLEASE. Just read it one time through. Every claim you keep saying about Christianity will be invalidated.

Originally Posted by me

I definitely disagree. And I am not using Jesus against Christians. I think socialism is a very christian thing in that it helps all people of a nation. Socialism doesn't assume everyone is good. It sets up institutions that help everyone because charity work is no where near substantial enough to improve the quality of life of a nation. You say that the Bible says that Socialism will "NEVER WORK" despite the fact that nations like France and Switzerland prove the exact opposite. I'll take empirical evidence over the Bible's conjectures any day.

If everyone is greedy by sinful nature, it would make sense to set up a government institution (socialism) that actually fought against that, whereas ideologically a republican government doesn't do that at all. It relies on trickle down effects that have been proven not to work (Reagan years where most of our current debt was accumulated), and it only widens the gap of the rich and the poor. Do you realize that 90% of the nations wealth is held by 1% of the population? Republican economics only worsens that.

Didn't Jesus say 'If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven?' To vote republican is to diametrically oppose that ideal. You said that "no point in my Bible does it say that the government should take care of it." but to me it is a false step in logic to allow something that the Bible doesn't say overrule something that Bible does say when deciding to vote. The Bible doesn't say how to vote in government on anything! Does it? But by that logic, shouldn't your political views be entirely independent of your religious views? I don't understand how you can pick and choose what you carry over from your religion to politics.
It is completely and absolutely paradoxical to me, and I don't know if any amount of explanation will ever make sense.

Again, I wasn't using Jesus against Christians. I was using him in Utilitarianism, Democratic ideals, and the good of all human beings of a single nation in the most effective way: government.

Originally Posted by her

The odds of history for socialism and communism don't look as bright to me.
You neglect to mention countries devastated by socialism, such as Russia, or countries suffering, such as China.
And I don't agree that socialism is working out wonderfully for places like France. Actually, based on a google search, there's a massive disapproval rate of the government there, and many people have suffered the consequences of policies like the institution of the 35-hour work week, which made it extremely hard for businesses and employees to make ends meet.

Your theory that socialism takes away greed doesn't fly with me. You missed one VERY important factor: the people at the top. You really think a socialist government has EVER just redistributed wealth where it needs to be without taking anything for themselves? Spending for their own benefit, or for the benefits of certain organizations that they want to prosper? A socialist government is equally as corrupt as a democratic government, except they have more reign to go against the wishes of the people.

And the "Sell all your goods and give it to the poor" thing in the Bible is Jesus talking to a very wealthy man who thought he wanted to follow him, but changed his mind after Jesus said those words. Jesus was using that rich man as an example of how hard it is for some people to become Christians because of greed, or pride, or selfishness. It was not a command from heaven to sell everything you have and give it to the poor, if you read the context.

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

jesus would have loved sonic youth.

Originally Posted by Alex's Trip

Can someone tell me how to knock some sense into the girl who thinks Jesus would be a Republican because the Bible doesn't say that the government should be responsible for helping the poor?

I said: "I think Jesus would have been a socialist. At least a democrat. "
She said:

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

jesus would have loved sonic youth.

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

where did they assume jesus would be a republican?



Burnin' eyes seek jesus comin
Jesus comes to pave the way

Originally Posted by Alex's Trip

She assumed it in speech, not through text that I can copy and paste to you. Furthermore, there was a quotation in the post above that was from Facebook, whereas everything else was on Myspace...

Originally Posted by Alex's Trip

Can someone tell me how to knock some sense into the girl who thinks Jesus would be a Republican because the Bible doesn't say that the government should be responsible for helping the poor?

I said: "I think Jesus would have been a socialist. At least a democrat. "
She said:

Originally Posted by Alex's Trip

OBVIOUSLY the difference between France and Switzerland and Russia and China is fascism. Additionally, she doesn't seem to understand how socialism and democracy are apples and oranges, one being an economic system, the other a form of representative government. BLAH BLAH BLAH, I get tired of arguing with her.

Originally Posted by pbradley

While I respect and support the idea of responsible spending in the government, I don't believe small government is right the answer to our situation. Adopting a small government in an age where the corporation is growing to transnational heights is reckless. Even today, globalization has made corporations responsible in many instances of representing the US foreign policy, often with results being human rights violations. Instead of terrorist takes against religious fanatics, we'll get terrorist attacks from freedom fighting nationals know construe corporation for nation.

Also the idea of an absolutely free market that is somehow independent of social realities is a myth. For there to be a truly free market, the government should do its part in equalizing the starting field for a free market to be the equally beneficial system that it is designed to be instead of the continuing exploitation of social inequalities that it is.

Originally Posted by pbradley

Jesus is apolitical, if not anarchistic. For Jesus, following the word of God faithfully would make irrelevant the need of following the wor of men.

Originally Posted by cryptowonderdruginvogue

Originally Posted by cryptowonderdruginvogue

Originally Posted by tesla69

I dunno, the story of Jesus has been rewritten several times by powerful empires for their own ends (continues today i.e., Dominionists), the truth may be he was part of some radical spiritual revolutionaries against the Romans, and had to flee into the desert. Everyone around Jesus was Hebrew, including Jesus, but somehow the Romans were able to pervert the story so that it was all the Jews fault, and not in fact the Romans who nailed him up - and they're so clever the romans, who nailed jesus and killed him, now are the spiritual leaders/enforcers of christianity.

Originally Posted by davenotdead

he probably would jump up on stage just to touch Lee whenever he plays Eric's Trip, and then never wash that hand again. and then he'd be all : "see this Lee Ranaldo guy? yeah, i made him"

Originally Posted by Sonic Youth 37

Obama makes it rain.