unfortunately we have zero proof that it even exists.

ZERO.

we have literally no scientific data that even hints that intentionality is anything other than an EXPERIENCE. no data that suggests ANY causal power for the phenomenon we call self.

its possible we could come across some. but i wouldnt hold my fucking breath!

scott bakker writes about this and is terrified of his own theories. but he has not been proven wrong. sure, the vast majority of people selling books or performing their careers will tell you otherwise, but bakkers theories can shoot them down everytime. he has a complete theory of consciousness which will either be proven or disproved by future empirical tests.

this is what makes me such a nihilist.

we are literally trapped in a machine that thinks, that can only think of itself, as having powers that it does not posses. bakkers theories explain exactly why this has occurred and why evolution rigged us this way.

therefore, not only do we have no intentionality or self whatsoever, we can't even get this idea across to each other without horrifying each other. capitalism exploits us knowing full well that free will is a consumer existentialist myth, and capitalism is getting smarter and smarter in how it engineers those burgers to hijack the brain of the human cattle in its consumer pens. the system works by profiting off knowledge that the vast majority of people are ignorant of and will REFUSE to believe! even though its true!

we will never admit that this freedom we have is a sham, and society will simultaneously ENCOURAGE this delusion as it also exploits us using science based on the truth that we don't have a self.

we can't admit it to each other socially because we're animals and it's a sign of weakness. we're fucking screwed. the truth is brutal.

cigarettes are stimulants, alcohol is a depressant.

i don't mean to oversimplify your dna but it would seem like you have a "problem" with low dopamine. not you alone-- you and your environment. i.e., your environment requires a dopamine level that you must supplement with cigarettes in order to function.

i used to drink more when i was doing stuff i hated. now i don't have to. i still have a "problem" with low dopamine (vs. the usual requirements) but i manage.

i mean, we are literally wandering about in desperation for money, working and hustling in whatever way we can, and then we're being neurologically hijacked by highly sophisticated drugs - tobacco, junk food etc. and it gives us intense pleasure because of what it does to our brains. it also destroys us slowly, so we walk around in this sublime mixture of fear and craving - I WANT TO FUCKING QUIT I'M KILLING MYSELF IM TERRIFIED! we also want to HAVE IT really really fucking badly. we are machines telling each other stories that are totally fictional about our dedication to quit. it's a nightmare. the only way out is death. and death tastes good.

its not a matter of simply getting "more" dopamine. the science doesn't work that way. i dont understand it but i know that the way we talk about dopamine in mass culture is just not accurate.

right, but it's a theory-- a big one-- that has yet to be proven or disproven.

meanwhile, the animal wants to quit smoking but can't.

but since the universe has yet to be deciphered, you might as well try an empirical approach in the meantime-- see what has worked for others and try it for yourself (within reason-- i won't try religion, for example). there are a myriad methods and one might work for you. eventually, if nothing works, you can at least say that you have proof that trying is futile.

Like all things that cannot be "verified" you either act as if it is real or act as if it is not, but it does not define the issue. if you act like you have free will, then you will show free will. if you choose to act as if free will does not exist, then you have exercised free will to do so.

either way, free will is real.

It may only apply to a tiny fraction of what we actively engage in, but that does not make it unreal. It is a very interesting philosophical conversation though.

Mr. Bakker exercised his free will in choosing to write about the non-existence of free will. (edit)

that's post modernism 1.0. we bluff and play for time "but you DON'T KNOW!".

that's over now. now we do know.

ive tried A LOT.

there's nothing out there left for me to try.

i really resent the idea i should feel like i need to take personal responsibility for this situation. i think that is a subtle form of abuse. an ideology by which the slave/resources of consumer society are made to take societies failure onto their own backs. like a slave being told his lot in life is between him and god.

people are making MONEY off me being isolated and addicted. society tolerates it. we all collaborate with this system because we have no other choice.

and we spend our days therapizing each other "you can do it! try exercise yoga fruit juice blah blah fucking blah". selling ourselves to lifestyles and products.

the evil has to stop. somehow, we have to find a way to stop people profiting off each other in this way.

you have nothing but semantics here. meanwhile neuroscience has a brain that shows absolutely zero capacity for free will or intention whatsoever.

is what you are saying even possible as a thing that i could "do"? i dont think so.

what i'm saying is that cigarettes provide you with something. what is that exactly? phenomenologically? biochemically? symbolically? behaviorally? socially?

if you can figure out what are the multiple payoffs, you can hack the mechanisms so that the animal gets the same or similar payoffs from other less "evil" (as you call them) sources.

cigarette companies are not omnipotent beings that cannot be defeated. they arrived to their formulas through trial an error, not through total control of the universe. their executives are whistling in the dark just like everyone else. they hack the animal, the animal hacks back.

imagine the fucking impossibility of the political project i am advocating here.

telling people the truth - they have no self, intentionality or free will, then trying to organize ourselves in such a way to put a stop to what are highly profitable drug selling operations. the very things that allow us a (momentarily) pleasurable sensation of death

yeah. but i am all out of hacks!

There is no purpose nor reason for existing. we all innately know this but we shy away from it and run to religion, or metaphysics, or some sort of surrogate that gives our lives "purpose."

I love life. I love to enjoy good food, good cigars. I wish I could drink cold beers on hot days but I am allergic to alcohol, so no go there. I enjoy learning. I enjoy art and music and making art.

These things are enough fro me to consider life worthy and to consider my life well lived.

I hope you can find somethings that make life beautiful dead_battery. I bet you have some but they are overshadowed by the suckage. I do not mean to assume, just wondering.

addiction of any kind is not rational. it is not a decision. The decision comes in fighting the addiction, at all cost, even to the death.

Its simple math, smoking causes lung cancer, period, end of discussion. Even more it contributes to all kinds of different cancers. There is no debate about this, the science you all love so much is quite conclusive about this. Its not a conspiracy from tobacco companies, these carcinogens are naturally occurring in the plant, its part of its evolutionary survival mechanism. Nicotine is a great drug for humans who weigh over a hundred pounds, but for insects that weigh less than grams it is an instant nerve toxin..

Its not just cancer, because nicotine causes vascular restriction for about 20 minutes after ingestion it is also a significant contributing factor in heart disease and heart attacks which actually kill more smokers than cancer. There is really no way around this..


Also, libertarian fantasies aside, smoking is not just a public health issue, but an economic one. People may think they have the freedom to smoke, and they do, but when they are dying in hospitals from debilitating cancers, well, shit, the massive expenses raise the rates for EVERYBODY, even worse still if they don't have private insurance and rely on the government. Then its our tax dollars at work paying for a suicidal dumbass.

Rob, glad you quit, I also smoked a pack and half of Winstons for 10 years. I quit like you, because I noticed the negative health effects starting..

Smoking is like ALL drug abuse, it is needlessly caustic and self-destructive, however we have more or less accepted it as "normal" behavior in adults. Thankfully public attitudes are changing rapidly over the past 10-15 years.. Here in LA you are literally more likely to see people smoking POT on the street than a cigarette, and you're more likely to get harassed by some passerby for smoking a cigarette than a joint.

You propose something that takes free will to do.

have you looked at what are the payoffs of smoking though? what's the reward?

it's easy to say "cigarettes are terrible" because it's what everyone says, but it's much harder to say "cigarettes are delicious because…" and write a long fucking list of reasons.

and i'm not asking you for cigarettes as a universal entity.

i'm asking-- what are cigarettes to you? What do they give you? I'm not asking you to give me a pre-canned response, what you already know, cigarette executives made you do it. Rather, I'm suggesting the use of observation, note taking, experimentation, analysis. etc., to find out what makes smoking such a great passion. Break the experience into all of the components you can notice-- physiological, emotional, sensory, intellectual, etc. What are the triggers, how is satisfaction achieved… Take time to get to know your circuits. From the initial purchase to cleaning the ashtray to the next purchase.

Or, as an animal--learn to stalk your prey before you try to chase it. What it eats. Where it eats. When. How it reacts to the weather. Where it sleeps. Etc.

I didn't say it wouldn't be a lot of work ha ha ha. But it can be fun if you have the inclination.

what are the most money making products? the addictive ones. Gambling, porn, cigarrettes, food/sugar, ALCOHOL worst of all. Cash rules everything around the USA.

we're already living in a state which could very easily lock me up and forcibly medicate me for making those comments where i fantasize about becoming a terrorist and giving tobacco company execs lung cancer.

the algorithms that are scanning this post are sorting it for key words right now.

clinging to the delusion of free will is like having an advertisement for your own fucking enslavement and death emanating from your own fucking mouth!

and speaking out against it is social suicide for an animal that has darwinian reasons for making itself look like its in control.

there's BIG PROFIT in addiction. BIG FUCKING PROFIT.

did you know that when the financial crash happened in 08, one of the american banks hired an analyst who discovered that something like 70% of the entire economies assets were criminal in some way.

this entire fucking edifice is propped up by addiction, crime, cannibalization.

and we're the fucking cattle! begging for scraps from the fucking table, trapped in a videogamed reality in which we're constantly monitored, assessed, survielled, and subjected to neuro hacks to get us to SPEND NOW and CONSUME MORE.

yeah yeah i hear this everywhere over and over again.

beauty - enjoyment. over and over again.

it means shit to me. i will stake my lonely little patch of bitter fucking dirt and scream over and over again about all this, and refuse to play the game of pretending to find an alternative but struggling and screaming about this shit until i annoy people so much they want to murder me.

if i die of lung cancer id like to have some tobacco exec kidnapped and someone to force my decomposing cancerous lungs down his fucking throat. that would be "enjoyable".

it makes me feel sick to even talk like i enjoy anything. and im pretty sure beauty and death are exactly the same thing for mammals like us.

the fact is - we HAVE to recognize this as a collective ethical catastrophe and not an individual personal problem to be overcome by adjustment to life in a way that makes us hedonic and compliant.

i REFUSE to accept that this is my fault.

it's not my fault. its not the alcoholics fault.

for me, it'll just be cancer or something. the alcoholic might beat his wife to death or smash his car into someone.

the parent who is an addict can end up seriously damaging their kids lives because of it.

i fucking refuse to accept that the answer is to just say "all we can do is find different enjoyments."

no, that alcoholic has been neurologically hacked for profit, and in fact, by taking this position and absolving him of the FALSE responsibility of magically overriding the physical state of his brain with a supernatural conceptual construct of will, I am the one whose actually defending true free will here.

if you want to talk about free will, then i say that the society that exercises its free will and sells the drug to the addict is responsible.


they have the free will to handle the drug without being compelled to consume it to excess. the alcoholic doesn't, and they know this, and they profit big time off him because of it. then they blame him and tell him to sit alone at home and just think about having free will harder. meanwhile the off licence is open. the pub is open. the alcohol is always there. he will always be sold it.

we are selling each other memetic constructs that describe a supernatural sense of will but omit the physical status of the brain, genome and body.

we are profiting off addiction and also profiting off the sobriety industry. the determination to quit industry.

it's a trap and it's evil and it's causing misery and suffering.

when i last had a job an alcoholic came in with a shitty phone he wanted to sell to us. we didn't buy it. my co worker knew him and knew that he had found the phone on the street. he told me that this alcoholic HAS NO ELECTRICITY in his home. he just sits and drinks in the dark or wanders the street looking for money or ways to get free booze.

i felt disgust at this guy, and my co worker expressed something similar in his tone of voice. and it's natural for us to behave like this because we're animals primed for social status. but at the same time, this poor fucking bastard is one of us. a human being! think of what other things he could be doing with his time!

imagine if we could STOP selling alcohol to people like this. imagine if we had the ability to collectively deny them their drug of choice.

thats the thing about addiction, unless its booze or skag or whatever, the withdrawal is usually easy. the fact is if the drug is not there, you just dont do it. eventually you're fine.

it's just not acceptable to me that its IMPOSSIBLE for us organize a way to stop addiction from destroying people

of course you're right, but this is no cure for your immediate problem.

it's like having a house fire and complaining that the town lacks a properly funded fire department. all well and good! but first you have to make it to the city council alive to make that point.

and don't forget that the grassroots can also defeat top-down approaches. anti-smoking "fascism" (as it's called by its opponents, including me at one time) in america is growing by leaps and bounds thanks to a social movement that started with a few individuals and is now an established force.

consider then that when you quit smoking you remove a profit center from your enemies. when you teach that to someone else you remove two. then they teach that to someone else, and things can grow exponentially. yes, the struggles are infinite and endless but they have to be fought regardless, no?

yes. but as long as we decide it begins and ends with individuals not partaking, and structures that encourage and develop new addictions remain in place, we are fighting the same battle over and over again and never really getting anywhere.

lets say i quit - and lets say i dont die of an illness caused by all the damage i've already done. well good for me.

it just means the system that targeted me is now targeting another victim.

i was the kid who said i'd never smoke. i was the good kid who understood the rational arguments, understood that it was a fucking idiotic idea. i was very well educated.

and look what happened!

and of course everyone says "well that was your choice!".

post christian morality, we're all confronted with heaven and hell every moment and where we end up is entirely our responsibility.

something tells me that secular versions of this fantasy DO NOT WORK and DO NOT ACTUALLY STOP the fucking problem of addiction from occurring no matter how appealing and sensible they might sound.

you can't dangle something as appealing as a prohibited and intensely enjoyable way to die in front of a fucking human and expect them not to bite, then condemn them when they do! that's fucking sick!

then lecture them over and over again about how its all their free will and their choice! we're fucking dying animals! all we do is die! give us a way to do it that feels good and you can bet your fucking ass we'll take it! how could we resist?

btw im not trying to rant at symbol or anyone else specifically here

im not saying that you should quit your social struggles. actually i find reading your comments refreshing but not just at the entertainment level, but rather-- in a way gets my brain unstuck from programming, i.e., excessive focus on the individual. and this influences my everyday choices and actions.

BUT there is an individual front regardless. you either fight it or abandon it. the fight doesn't end in that particular front, but who would you rather have occupying that biopower station? The merchants of death?

yes i know.

fine. then lets not even talk about the individual perspective anymore.

you don't HAVE to bring it back to me in post after post.

-

seriously though - if saying "you have free will and its your own choice" sounds and perhaps even is quite sensible, but it in fact does not actually do anything to make the plague of addiction cease, then there is an ethical failure in not going further than that.

the individual perspective is the one your house fire needs though. you can't wait until the city sees common sense and forms a fire brigade. aren't you desperate to quit? you quitting does not disqualify defeating the drug peddlers. there is more than one way to destroy them.

ps- unless you wanna martyr yourself. but i don't think people will notice.

telling a knife wielding maniac not to stab someone is not enough. you can't just go "well gee officer, i told him not to stab all those people, what more do you want from me?"

if you are there and you can see he's gonna do it you have to tackle the fucker!

hey, you might not have a direct scan of the interior of his brain that would allow you to observe the cogitations and data that indicate "extreme psychosis, cortisol levels rising, imminent intent to stab random strangers". but you see him salivating and staring at people and hear him ranting about his mother and god planting bugs under his skin or whatever.

so you do the right thing and try and stop him.

i mean, when you see a man whose an alcoholic, you already know his kids are highly likely to have the same genes. we could screen them! we could stop alcohol from being sold to these people, or at least make it incredibly difficult. we could show them their genomes, we could explain to them. we could scan their brains and detect addiction before it starts. we could do all this ethically, and only resort to coercion if they break laws and do serious damage to others. we are smart enough to pull this off without becoming nazis.

but of course, we're post modern liberals with a christian heritage and an ideological dedication to "FREEDUMB!" and capitalism and if you fucking dare say anything that's like, uncool, you will be shouted down by the crowd with their fucking holy mantra "ENJOYMENT!". like its their fucking sieg heil.

you know how much EASIER it would be for me to quit if the shops wouldnt sell me the cigarettes? fucking hell!

and the argument that it wouldnt be impossible for me to get them is only half the truth. making it that difficult would make my battle so much easier. it would massively increase the statistical odds for success.

Yup. Sugar is probably the worst drug in America. Porn has become so damned insidious that its seemingly evolving human sexuality into wild directions (not perversion wise, I could careless what gets people off so long as its not children or corpses, I'm talking about clinical addictions that cost people jobs, houses, families, yikes!). Alcohol is probably involved one way or another with at least HALF of ALL deaths in the US. Half of all homicides. Half of all fatal car crashes. Half of all disease related deaths. Whoa...

The example we try to teach our children so it sticks with them in the rest of their lives is that life is about making wise choices. dead_battery is wrong. Life does have meaning, purpose, and value. It has nothing to do with religion, metaphysics, politics, economics, ideologies, philosophies, none of it.. What is the meaning of life? Learning to make valuable choices and understanding that actions inherently have consequences. Shit, this is is Newton's Third Law. Every action has an equal and/or opposite reaction.

How to make life meaningful? Make good choices. How to make hell out of this life? Make bad decisions.

Have you read Patrick Suskind's Parfum? Its not only my ALL-TIME favorite novel, EVER, but I think its PERFECT FOR YOU. I think you will readily relate to the main character and the insights of the narrator. Read it. In fact, you should read all of Suskind's books, they all have that same sense of what I describe as being "optimistically negative (e.g. negative without being cynical or pessimistic).. Its a unique perspective which I've never quite read or seen in any other people, aside from possible the Russian Orthodox Nihilist Seraphim Rose.


And don't even remotely glance at the movie without having first read the book, the movie is good but doesn't have the same negative magic.

good choices to me are a fucking vain pretension.

maybe they work as a kind of retrospective description of the way you lived. you chose a route to death that involved maximum peaceful co existence. you helped others, you worked and kept civilization going. you made things or fixed things or something. a good life.

this is what i want. but talking about choices and free will is folk psychological superstition, or just plain showing off.

talking about free will and choice as if they exist independently from reality, that thing which determines what options there are for a person, is just ethically irresponsible.

TRUTH

never read it, although do know the film and the song very well.

It is not about beauty or enjoyment. making art is HARD WORK and not necessarily pleasurable. The joy comes from actively CREATING something.