The Fall entourage
 

Anyone have any theories on why The Fall change their lineup so often? I have been wondering this for while, any feedback would be appreciated.

Mark E Smith was once arrested for assault in 1998.

I imagine it's very difficult to keep musicians playing ostensibly simple things for any length of time. You ever tried to get a guitarist to not solo? Impossible.

The man himself explained it very well on an interview tha was on The Wire (if memory serves me well).He said that musicians generally start developing a musician big ego after a while and they have to go.Suits them well especially if they are not that capable to work under brilliant supervision.

yeah, but mark e smith seems happy to employ any assortment of pubrockers he can his hands on these days. when was the last time the fall had a member who distinguished himself on his or her chosen instrument?

Well, that depends on what you like. I really like Eleni's keyboarding, I enjoyed Julia Nagle's contribution, that violinist chap was great (extricate era?), the guitarist whose name might be Neville I enjoyed. Either he's never had distinguished instrumentalists or he always has them, depends on how/ what you're listening for/ to.

yeah but compare something like dragnet to any of the records for the last few years and the level of imigination in the playing, it's not even funny.

I'm going to have to agree to disagree with you there, Mr Bowels. I can't be bothered to articulate myself, but I do strongly disagree.

really? the new fall (i haven't heard the new new fall, country and western bar band or whatever it is) is alright but it's hardly more than a vehicle for mark e smith to recite words over.

I think maybe they're further away from any single instrument standing out, but the arrangements are pretty amazing on a lot of the modern stuff - the whole of Levitate, Ibis Afro Man from Are you are..., the use of melodic instruments for 'rock' drum parts on Sparta, the bassline off Blindness...
- maybe it's not all of their songs, but it's not something that's entirely absent.

I've read a few interviews where MES talks makes an analogy of himself being like a football manager and feeling the need to "rotate his squad". He's also said stuff along the lines of seeing The Fall as something that needs to constanty change and move forward. Also, I can't imagine him being the easiest person to work with for long periods of time. Personally I've been really impressed with recent Fall stuff; I thought Fall Heads Roll was a great album - I've not heard the brand new one yet though. I saw the latest lineup a couple of months back in Birmingham and I thought it was one of the strongest Fall shows I've been to in quite some time.

I found this interview with Ben Pritchard (who played on Heads Roll) about how he left the group. I found it pretty interesting, as it kinda shows another side to the story:
http://www.visi.com/fall/news/pritchardint2006.html

the new fall albums. country on the click, the unutterable, fall heads roll and reformation post tlc are some of the strongest and musically proficent albums the fall have ever done. its not right comparing fall albumns from 20 odd years ago to todays or even the 80s ones. as john peel said, the fall are always different but always the fall.

the last line up mark had (country/ heads roll) is probably the best line up he ever had and im countuing the mark riley, craig scanlon line up. awesome riffs an music. an so what if he decided to use pub bands so what. its the fall for fuck sake not radiohead!!!!

as for the question of line up changes, mark may have said its to keep egos in check but the real reason is tha mark is a cantankerous git and slightly mad and he will just break up a band when he feels like it. being in the fall must be like being a tightrope waker, exciting and amazing but one little slip up and youre fucked..........

here is the bbc4 film about the fall, this may answer questions. 6 minute youtube segments....
1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-Ff-7ui9BY
2http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4bP568Yrfs
3http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKRyiNVsN10
4http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNiZz3FwuYk
5http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lb9DRt6q72c
6http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cj6l8otkX3M
7http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj2Tiqyrpk8
8http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6qryrkmo5Y
9http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECdKZC4_3zE

Hey - thanks for posting the links to the documentary. I saw it the second time it was shown on TV, but wasn't able to record it at the time. Cheers!

you're all mad the lot of you. blinded by deafness.

Thus spake the non-musician.

i'm really surprised you all think the new fall is as good as the old fall. i'm not saying the new fall stuff is bad, just that it's kind of workmanlike

whatever... i think the new one is great and so was the last one... i think it's good that the lineup changes, it keeps the sound fresh. the fall are probably the best band in the world right now.

blindness indeed---- but on jools holland. this rocks in a workmanlike way!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=We_mND4HpTg

and for comparison
smile------- on the tube with jools holland and john peel 1983
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNRGBpyhYW4

history will vindicate me!

Blah Blah Blah.

I think they've been fairly consistently amazing for far too long. I'm generally a fan of everything apart from pre-Slates stuff. His lyrics, to my mind, have rarely slipped except for a few occasions. Despite the fact I'm sort of arguing for the musical element, it's the lyrics which seperate them from every other band.

I got into them around Levitate, which was the dying breath of 'old Fall', so it's a lot easier for me to like the newer stuff, methinks.

Meh, I haven't found newer Fall stuff all that amazing either to be honest although I haven't listened to all that much.

Theyll Be No Christmas For John Quays..............

Aaaaaaaaaaa Aaaaaaaaaa Aaaaaaa Aaaaaaaa Aaaaaaaaaaa Aaaaaaaaaa Aaaaaaa Aaaaaaaa

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hl9VieMg1zw

".....WHATS A COMPUTER???????????????"

I like The Fall but sometimes it can be a bit harsh on the ears.

I always thought that Mark E Smith was a bit of an idiot to be honest. He seems like the hardest person to stand, let alone being in a band and touring with him. Jesus, that would be hell!

Long may he live :)

mark is no fucking idiot i assure you but i get what you mean. it must be a bitch being in a band with him.

I reckon he's a cunt, but generally people in music who aren't at least a little bit cunty are talentless.

Semper idem sed non eodem modo...works for message board threads too.

It's about understanding the mechanics of a certain type of music.Once you get it,my love,you really have learned.The Fall are one of the few bands that can afford themselves to be a science rather than a band.Probably the only of this kind.

I don't want to get into an old Fall vs. new Fall argument but I do think that all the line-up changes affect the sound. In the 70s/80s Steve Hanley had that very unique Fall bass sound. I think that when he left (after a very long stint with them) things were more inconsistent with their sound in general. It's not that The Fall don't make good records anymore, they still come out with the occasional cracking tune (blindness for example) but they've lost something along the way. Having said that, when I saw them in Dublin a few months back I was very impressed with Mark's voice. It seemed to be stronger again and he was in good form too and not too sloppy on the mic.

fucking forgot about that one. i went to see em 4 years ago in dublin and the fucker never showed up!!!!

call me history because i think you're right.

it must be hard for the new bands to learn the old songs (the
reason why there isn't so many oldies played live...) because
the guitars are too wild to be tranposed easily for a newcomer
(does it make sense ?)

the new compositions are easier to "hear", to me at least.

Yeah, there's never a guarantee that the old codger will actually turn up. When I was bringing my friends to the gig I had to warn them about that. Every time that they tour there's usually at least one gig cancelled and that could be at the very last minute!

Yeah the newer stuff is a bit more straught forward 'rock' in a sense. They do attempt the occasional oldie though.

In the BBC documentary he says that he's had "Fall fans" in the band before who want to make it sound like The Fall, and that's not what he wants.

I've read that Ben Pritchard interview before, it's pretty brutal.. being in The Fall sounds like an absolute nightmare

yeah, and still he's not sure if he'd return if mark would ask...

Playing gigs with Mark sounds like a nightmare, i saw The Fall last year and he was fiddling around with the amps while the band were playing and then in between songs he was telling the band how and where to stand.

but then again he did get beaten up by his band on stage in the 90's..

yeah in the documentary the band members refer to this as "Live Mixing" haha, what a load of shit. I saw it when i saw them last year, it was pretty entertaining but it was just him fucking around with the amps.

I wrote something, then deleted. I'm hammered. The synopsis is - he's a genius, you're not. He doesn't know fuck all about musicality, which is why he's the most necessary character in music today.