democratic debates
 

don’t wanna discuss this in the orange blob thread lol
let’s deprive him of attention for a moment

watching first debate part 2:

hickenlooper - has a good record but did little to grab attention
kamala - looked pretty awesome
bennett - didn’t know him before, but pretty good statements
swallower - escaped from an episode of the o.c.
bernie - bernie is bernie is bernie
williamson - at times entertaining but who is she? an exorcist?
gillibrand - yea yeah she’s smartish and seems knowledgeable actually, but fuck her weasel ways
uncle joe - wizened, but still has fire in the belly
booty judge - he’s a very smart boy and has a future
andrew yang - look, a member of the audience is standing with the candidates! even made a little speech at the end

The clear winner for me (of both nights). Even if I think she's full of shit, policy-wise.


Haha. Yeah.


I thought he was awful. He said it himself "my time is up". I only hope Obama earns royalties every time he mentions his name.


I agree. Had never heard him before and don't think he has a chance of getting the nomination or even VP, but he was very together. I just don't think he's where the Dems are at right now.

Big losers over the two nights were Beto and especially, given his position as front-runner, Biden. The guy just seems like a relic of someone who was never that impressive in the 1st place.

I seem to have a biological aversion to all things Warren and, as you say, Bernie is Bernie is Bernie, but people appear to like how they performed so they have to qualify as winners. They seemed to like Booker, too, but I don't get him at all. Harris won on pure ruthlessness, which will please her base but I've no idea how she's perceived more generally.

hahaha
I have no idea who is what, didn't watch it and probably won't (except for whatever will be shown on the news over here). But that was funny ;-)
poor guy

yeah kamala going after biden was the highlight of the evening no doubt. everyone else looked like a bunch of amateurs in that department. i don’t think her appeal was about ruthlessness though, but about wit and stage persona. there was someone whose mind is alive. with booker it was a similar thing, he was the least robotic candidate of his night. but kamala seems more capable.

biden’s obama invocations were a way to say “i’m not a racist”. and he’s not, but also he’s a little out of touch with the times—and already slightly shriveled. he’d still be a *much* better option than the geriatric from the other party.

warren did okay. she’s not telegenic, but did okay. her appeal is in the policy arena. bernie-warren could be an actual ticket.

I hope people realize Biden's not the best bet the dems have. I mean, bragging about not being called "boy" by vicious segregationists should be indicative of just how inappropriate and out of touch he is. Kamala Harris absolutely schooling him was indeed a great moment. Of course, Biden wouldn't be as bad as the current racist manchild in chief, but he doesn't provide the progressive spirit the dems desperately need right now. There are far more capable candidates than him.

Biden’s defense of his anti busing vote was wrong. He needs to learn how to apologize for that, his recent talk about getting along with white supremacists and his role in Thomas/Hill if he expects many people to have much faith in him today. His past is following him around rattling chains in a very Dickensian manner.

Exactly.

of course he’s not the best, we realized this with obama, who beat uncle joe handily in the primaries.

the issue is not who is “best,” the issue is who can beat the blob with actual voters in middle america. is macdonalds the best food? certainly not. but you can find it everywhere.

the issue with the progressive spirit is if it has enough wind behind its sails to have appeal beyond the base.

yes you need to activate the base, but you have to do it in a way that has mass appeal and does not alienate the middle class. obama did this with a centrist rhetoric (neither blue nor red, etc).

maybe the times can accommodate another new deal but this isn’t 1929. however, if the economy takes a shit before the election, then it’s another story.

different bets for different scenarios, but it’s all bets.

lmao

i think castro did okay actually. could pair up as vp.

—

i get the joke but not why you’d find it funny (besides beto lol).

i thought you hated austerity?

It was the Beto bit

yeah. his spanish is as terrible as the one on that meme too haa haaahaaa

(las cosas más gratis would mean “the freest stuff” not “the most [whatever] stuff”)

I normally stay out of the political convos, but I have to say my biggest takeaway from these couple nights of debates is how honestly likely we are to have another 4 years of Trump... Not saying I am for or against that either way, but just anticipating how absolute dogshit this election is going to be. I honestly question any single one of these candidates chance to win it all.

Either way, the shit-show will be entertaining...

and i’m saying i’m clearly AGAINST that without a doubt. i don’t get how one can be on the fence at this point in history.

i’m looking forward to kamala eviscerating that disgusting blob in front of millions

it’s gonna be like alia atreides fucking up baron vladimir harkonnen (oh yes, it’s vladimir of all names... frank herbert had the sight lol)

Not an attack on you personally by any means, but I do have to point to this as a big part of the problem, and this very ideal I have watched the past few nights. And where I foresee this election going.

Many on the left don't get it, and honestly they don't care to. You are hitting the nail on the head about Middle America voters. But not listening to or understanding why they feel the way they do is not going to solve anything, and denying it is just prepping for another rude awakening. These people exist.

It truly is going to have to be strong, thought out policies and actual answers for the complaints that are going to pull the fence-sitters. And right now, it still looks like we are strolling down the same "who can virtue signal the loudest" identity politics routines that got Trump elected in the first place, with no true self-awareness to how that is going to play out, once again. The only difference is the anti-Trump flags fly higher. And in all honesty, I think that is pushing the fence-sitters more to the right than the left want to realize.

i get what you’re saying, and i agree with what’s needed to win the election (and said so above), but personally i’d rather have an obnoxious, sanctimonious virtue signaler than a ridiculous clown who’s always 10 seconds away from tweeting us into nuclear armageddon.

i forget who it was that said “the biggest threat to our national security is donald trump” on wednesday, but he was absolutely right. [eta: it was washington governor jay inslee.]

One thing in last night's debate that confused me was when all 10 candidates raised their hand in support of extending tax-funded healthcare to undocumented immigrants, were they talking about emergency-room access or more general healthcare?

i am not sure, but doesn't your nhs charge nobody?

i read the story of an american tourist who was there and was charged 0 pounds to take his daughter

--

eta: the halfass argument (lack of time) that i heard biden put forward was that the undocumenteds would reinforce the insurance pool the same way they do with social security

so it would not be "free". i assume they'd pay into an insurance pool.

An American tourist would be able to use its primary care services free of charge but not anything more extensive. So they wouldn't be charged if they have an accident that needs treatment in a casualty ward (ER) but they would have to pay for something like a heart bypass, or cancer treatment or anything like that.

right. the thing with any successful insurance scheme is that it takes in more than it pays out.

social security collects from the undocumented but pays zilch.

im assuming the health business would pay out some.

haaa haaaahaaaaaaa

checkit

https://twitter.com/boxrecgrey/statu...221485568?s=21

Genius!

I feel strangely robbed that we'll likely never see that meeting on the field.

Haven't seen the debate or read too much about most of the candidates but in terms of policy isn't Kamala Harris more or less the black Hilary?

That's how she comes across to me.

Let's hope she doesn't win the nomination then

how? by sheer force of the proclamation that it is so? or is there any actual basis for this claim?

an explanation would be great...

It's just the impression I formed from stuff I have read about her over the last two or three years. Don't ask for sources, when I read about US politics it is from a distance and I didn't know I was going to be tested on it in the future, nor that Kamala Harris was going to run for the democratic nomination.

Same as T&B, just an impression. Seems to me like she's more fuelled by personal ambition than any real interest in the causes she professes to champion. True of all big name politicians to a degree it just seems like there's little else when it comes to K & H.

sssso... by sheer force of arbitrary proclamation then :D

As arbitrary as her switch from 'tough-on-crime' prosecutor to 'progressive' candidate.

ah, finally, something

so, what’s good about crime?

-

eta: here is something more solid:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/17/o...l-justice.html

Lots, if you're an ambitious prosecutor

Our opinions only seem arbitrary if you are incapable of imagining people having reasons to form opinions different to your own.

no, your opinions seem arbitrary when you offer them without supporting reasons

asking other people to prove your own arguments with their inventions is beyond lazy

eh—if a man is ambitious, he’s “doing what it takes,” but if a woman is ambitious, she’s lady macbeth?

that nyt article i posted goes into some of her actual fuckups. now that she’s got my interest i’ll look more into it. but outright dismissal, and purity tests, hell no.

i’m not joining the democratic circular firing squad. to dump trump is priority #1.

you forgot to mention she's black. If you're gonna dismiss me as a sexist you may as well go the whole hog and throw racist in there too.

im not dismissing you, an individual, as a category. im just pointing out the fact that we often apply these adjudications of traits differently to women. sometimes we realize it, sometimes we don’t.

e.g., you and i like “that lovable rascal” luis suárez, who is so often blinded by his own ambition he’ll do anything to win. sure, he is flawed, but we forgive him, and enjoy his play. what talent! and what hunger.

i’m not sure harris has bitten anyone, haa haaa haaa, not yet anyway. and she’s got talent. i’m willing to forgive some mistakes (anyone who does anything makes them)

actually i’m willing to forgive most mistakes in whoever ends up getting the democratic nomination. i’d even support that kooky lady in that field.

Nah fuck male prosecutors too for locking mothers up for their children's truancy. If that's the purity test then I guess a lot of people are purists. You can't have someone like that be the democratic nomination after Black Lives Matter and everything that's went on since, come on man. She played a not insignificant role in the system that so many people are fighting against. She came across the best in the debates and I'm fine with her burning Biden but a lot of what she said was either flip flopping on previous positions or just hypocritical. There are a million other choices and no one should settle just to DUMP THE BAD ORANGE MAN.

See, this to me is where it starts to read like Trump Derangement Syndrome. I get that you really don't like Trump, but your economy isn't doing bad, employment is up, I imagine your life hasn't changed that considerably since his appointment. I get that you think there are people who could do things better. I'd agree with you. But seriously, Marianne Williamson?

sure but YES, DUMP THE BAD ORANGE MAN

the truancy business seems terrible— i just read about it in that article i linked above. but i dont have all the details yet to make a judgment—im actually moving house today so not 100% devoted to the analysis. my guess however is if she moves up in the polls we’ll have a chance to look into her background a lot more.

principles in politics are all well and good but without the ability to execute you have nothing. and we have a congress..

i’ll take half a democratic agenda over 4 more years of trump followed by 4 of pence as they dismantle obamacare and give carte blanche to predatory insurance plans, continue to ignore climate change, and give their rich pals even more tax cuts and privileges.

we’ll have this discussion ad infinitum, i know.