Legends - Did They Live Up?
 

So, having seen Damo Suzuki the other night, and been let down, I got to thinking. I've seen a lot of really legendary proto-punk, punk, post-punk, experimental, and jazz artists. Many have totally lived up to the hype, a few have not. A couple were dismally down-letting. It'd be interesting to start a thread for legendary bands/artists we've seen and whether or not it was all deserved.

Here are my lists:

Totally Deserved Legends - Eartha Kitt (!), Sun Ra and the Arkestra, Rocket from the Tombs, Pere Ubu, Jandek, The Fabulous Wailers, Allen Ginsberg, Stephen Jesse Bernstein, Mission of Burma, Legendary Pink Dots, Sonic Youth, Fugazi, Einsturzende Neubauten, Sun City Girls, Chris Knox, The Cramps, Big Black, John Zorn's Cobra, Painkiller, Green River, Nirvana (90% of the time), Elliott Smith, Negativland.

Not at Prime, but Still Quite Passable - Dictators, Ramones, Blondie, Miles Davis, Donovan, Helios Creed, Burning Spear, Lydia Lunch, Swans, Butthole Surfers, Pussy Galore, The Wipers, Acid Mother's Temple, John Fahey

Seeming Rather Tired - Damo Suzuki, Dizzy Gillespie, The Soft Boys, The Fall, Nurse With Wound, Savage Republic, Gary Numan

Expired - John Cale, Public Enemy

holy shit the wipers! one of my all time favorites..

i don't know if i've seen any "legends" (to be a legend, you have to have been around a while, i guess? at least 10 years? i've seen shellac! and i'm going to see melt banana and polysics next month -- they've both been around 10+ years, somehow)... but uh... xiu xiu were good!

Actually, I'm disappointed to have missed that, though I don't think I could have afforded the asking price if it had come through the NW. From what I've heard, it wasn't bad at all with Glenn Matlock back on bass. I'd certainly have givent them the chance.

When I saw the Wipers, that was ages and ages ago, and I was too high on acid to fully appreciate their set. The U-men kind of blew them away as I remember it, but who can trust an 18 year old on acid's judgement? But of course, I'm glad to have seen the original band. Sage's remake groups haven't seemed worth checking out.

I debated putting Shellac down on my own legend list. They certainly lived up to every ioata of their renown. Melt Banana probably qualify as legends within the noise/grind/and post no-wave circles, so why not. They'd be in my deserved category too, quite good. So were Stereolab come to think of it. And yeah the Melvins have been awesome every time I've seen them, which is a whole lot of times.

Oh, didn't hear about Geezerfest until after it happened, and you're the first to mention Catt Butt played. That would have been fun, but David Duet can't possibly do the kind of PA dives he did twenty years ago! I saw Catt Butt many a time back in the day. I've actually been waiting decades to get to write that sentence too!

Ziegler's always been known as one of the nicest people in Oly as far as I know. I like him, he has my band's live sets on his trading list. I have no idea who has roadied for the Melvins most of the times I've seen them, though once Justin Trosper was doing it as I saw him carrying shit out of their truck.

The reason Catt Butt are forgotten is their personalities. At the peak of their garage rock/grunge prowess they had the biggest egos in Seattle and didn't have the crowd or record sales to back it up. Sub Pop actually deleted their vinyl album back when they were keeping everything by all of their bands in print, and I don't think it ever made it to cd. I liked their records o.k., but always liked that sort of thing way more live.

People from Oly that knew Kurt are highly protective of him as a real person/non-icon to this day. I'm not one of those people as I moved to Oly right before he killed himself, and even had the poor grace to call my band after the occurance That Stupid Club. Nonetheless, I'm sure Mike gets defensive/suspicious when "outsiders" ask about his old friends from the scene. You shouldn't take it personal, in his shoes you'd probably do the same.

man, i'd love to see stereolab live. i bet that shit was crazy.

I saw Dinosaur Jr at the Rock en Seine festival and they totally rocked. I loved the Mogwai show even more but I don't think they can be called legends...

good legends: art ensemble of chicago, the stooges, sonic youth, brotzmann & bennink, keiji haino, solomon burke, public enemy, the wu tang, henry rollins/black flag songs tour, os mutantes, diamanda galas, boredoms, evan parker, amm, entombed

mediocre legends: pharoah sanders, flipper, fugazi, einsturzende neubauten

bad legends: kool keith, damo suzuki, dinosaur jr, jandek

Weird, so you saw Jandek and he wasn't amazing? And you saw Public Enemy and they didn't suck? Polar opposites of both my experiences, but then every night is as different as every person.

I wasn't there, but based upon their common close friends I'm pretty certain Jerry must have hung out with Kurt. He plays in Fitz of Depression now you know, and they were Nirvana's favorite local opener.

yep, public enemy were awesome and jandek played a load of songs that all sounded exactly the same.

The Fall and Sonic Youth have both been absurdly brilliant and moderately crap on various occasions in my experience.

Great: Kenny Rogers; Haino; Takehisa Kosugi; Richie Hawtin; Otomo Yoshihide (does he count?); The Stooges; Dolly Parton; Rolf Harris; Bounty Killer. I'd add there's countless British trad-jazz bands/ players I've seen that've been nothing short of incredible, but I can't remember their names and I'm not sure if they're legends. They are mostly in their 60s and 70s though.

Cack: Public Enemy; De La Soul; Aphex Twin; Sheep on Drugs;
Stiff Little Fingers; Jandek.

There's probably more, I imagine.

you are crazy. not only is Burning Spear a living legend, but is still well into his prime..

i had the same experience with whitehouse.

new blockaders were another "legendary" group who lived up, ditto the dead c and otomo, although i'm not sure if they are legends yet.

the stooges kicked ass
i was not impressed with the stones
dinosaur jr were a bit boring
bob dylan was TERRIBLE

Legend: Merle Haggard, Sonic Youth

Shit: Iggy Pop (shit twice)

oh i forgot about merle haggard! i saw him with bob dylan and he was great although unfortunately bob was shit.

to be fair though, isn't that what bob dylan's music generally is?

the only real lapse in judgement you've exercised that i can recall perhaps other than the whole death metal thing and cutting your hair off. i won't listen to anything beyond desire but i'll do the calculations.

looks like 70% is not to my taste
15/50 that i LOVE = 30%

but really i do love him he's just getting a bit up there although mentally he is brilliant and he has made some of the most amazing albums ever to have been released.

Did I miss something? Were you in the audience at the show I was at fifteen years ago? I'll maintain that I'd expect if I saw him tomorrow, he'd still be quite passable, and every bit deserving of his legend, but I wouldn't delude myself that it's not likely decades past his most intense work.

Oops. Yeah, I was talking about Mike too, and somewhere along the lines I transposed his brother's name in there. I'm sure they'd both want to kill me.

it was black metal, plus there was my indifference towards bowie.

Mani N. of Guru Guru totally lived up last night. Guy still completely rules the kit.

I really enjoyed Damo Suzuki when he came here... except for some saxaphone player who didn't seem to really understand what was going on, and also tried to sing. Also, these dudes where playing with him: http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...id=112 488538

Also legendary was (the Canadian) David Wilcox. It was also amusing to hear drunken college students yelling "PLAY FUCKING RIVERBOAT FANTASY!"

Don't know if I've seen any other 'legends'. However, I'm seeing Ruins next week... we'll see how that turns out...

i haven't seen many that have underwhelmed me or just straight up bad (even the Stooges at ATP focused on the hits and not the new stuff), the only ones i can think of in retrospect are Aerosmith and The Slits (who weren't bad but seemed out of place in the venue)

as for mind blowing
SY
Sun City Girls
Gang of Four
Wu-Tang Clan
KRS-One
Half Japanese

where's Sabbath?

Saw Gorilla Biscuits last night, and they turned the place upside down.
Reminded me of the good old days when New York hardcore was at it's peak.

i suppose so, i don't think it was mind blowing, but they were great

Blinding - Sonic Youth and Coil.

Hideous - The Velvet Underground.

So So - Damo Suzuki, but I left earlier.

Can't classify - The Fall (They were a right mess, but entertaining nonetheless)

I totally agree. One of the shittest live acts I've ever seen. I couldn't believe he playbacked the whole show. What a cunt.

Unexpectedly good - Death In June ( I wasn't really expecting them to be that good)

Oh yeah Gang of Four should have been on my list of Legends who deserved it. Interesting to compare them to Savage Republic who are significantly younger, but who seemed physically tired trying to play their old energetic songs, while Gang of Four wore me out instead by making me dance as hard as Andy was! Amazing how much vocal control he still has, enough of it's pure voice that you know it's not being faked by effects.

Blinding - The Wire, Nirvana and Maureen Tucker.

i forgot about gang of four & coil, they were both excellent

Resurgent legend: Nick Cave. He's an undeniable God as far as I'm concerned, but even I will admit that his recorded output been sub-par for a while. However, live Grinderman is up there with prime Bad Seeds.

Only legend I've seen was ian Mackaye in the Evens. Great Show!!!!

you did. were you not at the show I just saw of Burning Spear two weeks ago, and let me tell you something, the Spear was running that crowd of 15000 at the hollywood bowl. Reggae is not like rock, it does not have to progress. The Abyssinians made ONE ALBUM IN 38 YEARS and it still one of the most popular, important and influential albums of ALL TIME, and when I saw the Abyssinians three weeks ago I dropped to my knees in tears it was so perfect, as much as it was any time ago. The same is with the Spear, the tunes he does are perfect, and he still does them with as much zeal and energy as ever, if not more I say...

I believe you as far as the show you were at, and I'm glad to hear it, but I still think I'm a fair enough judge of music and performance regardless of genre, to judge the night I was at (which is what I was reviewing, NOT the night you were at.) He was great that night, I said as much, however, I didn't get the impression that I was seeing the best performance he had ever given. I was thrilled to see someone who I think is deserving of his legend, but I didn't feel like I was seeing a show that was entirely up to par to that legend, great though it still was. Could there be another night in the future after that one where I would feel differently? Of course there might, just as I might see Damo Suzuki again in a year and really be impressed with the show despite what I saw Sunday night.

I really don't buy this attitude that a genre is somehow different from another genre in terms of "progression". There are rock artists, jazz artists, and country artists who have made a single album and been hugely influential for decades. And there are reggae artists, the same as any other genre, who have made career changes driven by market motivations or dwindling creativity that have resulted in them not being as good as they were before. I'm NOT accusing Burning Spear of this, and never did. I just didn't see him as "perfect", merely "really good" on the night that I got to see him.

If I had been at the show you were at, I might well have reacted as you did. When I saw the Cramps they were putting out albums that weren't "progressing" from their earlier work to say the least, but I was still floored by the energy and vitality of their live gig and definitely thought the band I saw deserved every ounce of legend they'd earned. Which to me sounds very similar to what you experienced with Spear despite them being a "rock" band and him being a "reggae" artist. Me, I'm not wedded to any one genre in the slightest, and if I were, rock wouldn't likely be that high on the list these days. I think it's all about the individual artist or group and what they have to give regardless of what section their music gets filed under in record stores and on iTunes.

I'm not going to put a lot of thought into this... but...

Dylan was terrible
Sonic Youth fucking ruled
Shellac also fucking ruled... Shellac FUCKING ruled.
Melt Banana never disappoints but has gotten progressively worse each time I've seen them.
That Henry Rollins/Black Flag tour was definitely good.
ICP Orchestra was god damn ridiculous.
Joe McPhee was mediocre.
I saw the "Silver Apples" last night and I got bored.

missed Jandek TWICE due to my scheduling ineptitude... would have loved to have seen him.

speaking of shellac etc the touch + go 25th anniversary party was great.