A question...
 

Is it more important to accept yourself for who you are, or to try and change the things abour yourself that you don't like?

Recently I've been feeling pretty down about myself (like every other boardie seems to be too - I thought summer was supposed to be a happy time?) and I don't know whether I should just work on being happy with the way I am, or try and change my life (this would have to be a pretty radical change).

When and how do you know that your life is 'wrong' or 'bad' as opposed to just having a lack of confidence in yourself and the things you do?

Sorry just rambling a bit here, but it would be good to get some other opinions, it's really hard to look at your own life objectively.

Hmmm well I think if you are unhappy then you should change something but not always about yourself, if you know what I mean? thats a bit vague but perhaps you could try a change of scene or doing something different and see how you feel then?

it's more about escaping from the perfectionism/obsessiveness/judgment that we impose upon ourselves.

it all comes from having been socially programmed to earn love-- "if you're good mommy will love you" rather than learning unconditional love. i'm not saying your mom was like that, but the whole society is rigged to make us "earn" the esteem of others-- eventually we internalize the process and we do it to ourselves-- we hate ourselves when we fuck up, we gloat when we have some kind of supreme performance.

so we strive for better grades, great performances, a perfect figure, impeccable taste, whatever-- so that we can feel lovable.

that makes us slaves.

regardless of how great you do, you'll never please everyone-- so the key (i have learned) is to act as your own best friend-- when your best friend fucks up or has a lettuce in their teeth you don't say "hey you pig, you flawed, you faulty, i despise you and i hold you in contempt"-- right? well just like you accept your own best friends warts and all can you do that with yourself? stop judging? i guarantee you, you won't become a slob-- you'll simply free up the energy you waste in self-judging and you'll fall into more positive pursuits.

i swear.

!@#$% says to stop judging, he's probably older and wiser than me- actually not probably, he is, but in my youthful confidence I'll throw in my two cents on the matter.

I still judge and criticise myself on many points and I don't see it as anything bad, it's just what helps me feel good about myself. For instance, when my hair looked bad, I said to myself, "you have a bad hairstyle", and I went and got it cut and then I looked much better and got many compliments from people about it and that made me feel better about it, it gave me confidence.

Thats self-judging that did me a world of good! To contrast the superficiality of that example I'll offer a second; I knew too well that I was too shy and quiet and that I was wasting time being hung up about making a fool of myself- I changed that when I started at Community College and knew that with a fresh start I could reassess myself and reinvent myself to my fullest potential. I took risks, yes, but I'm a lot happier for it. I've made more friends than I ever thought I'd have and they're all lovely people who make me smile.

good point danny but when lucy mentions depressed i see a little beneath the surface-- depression is usually brought about by self-punishment and self-condemnation (i am an expert in that matter! i made my own life miserable for decades!).

so yeah i still get haircuts & try to do this & that & the other, recently moved to a decent city, made lots of progress in what people would call "my life", but the main point is that when i fail or fall short of my expectations i may feel a bit sad but i don't start putting myself down inside my head-- on the contrary, i treat myself kindly-- just like i would a friend.

so if your hair looks crummy and you don't have money for a decent haircut don't go around telling yourself youre a worthless slob is what im saying, ha ha ha-- don't make self esteem conditional on "goals" and appearances. be your best friend no matter what you do.

very good advice, symbol guy. but easier said than done.

i obsess. i'm depressed and obsessing. i'm driving myself crazy.

i don't agree-- my life was A LOT harder and way more painful when i was in the habit of judging and tormenting myself. for a time i was even ready to off myself and i escaped that fate by the width of a pube.

the only thing i regret is not having figured it out sooner.

yeah it takes work to figure out (7 years of therapy enough for you?) but it's soooooooo fucking worth it.

it's like being released from a fucking chain gang!

It takes a lot of effort to change yourself. I know by experience as well. I spent most of my childhood and adolescent in a depressing state. I finally decided to get help and better myself.

I also realized I wasn't a mainstream person, and most likely will never be. I am fine with that. You just have to look within yourself and work what needs to be work and leave what doesn't need to be changed.


edit- Therapy really helped me out a lot. It made me focus on the kinks of my life. If you can afford one you should take it.

Brilliant question! Been wondering about that myself for awhile.

I went to therapy in an attempt to change what was wrong in my life, and we spent the whole time trying to make me feel good about my life as it is.

I found out that this is a common therapy route. Like, "Don't work on making more friends, be cool with having none."

Accepting your life or changing it: either seems incredibly difficult, and I'm not sure which is best. Probably the former.

Well changing few things can improve your life, while retaining some can also improve it as well.

yeah i guess there is a need for a balance between changing things that need to be changed (like living a healthier lifestyle and such) and accepting things that just are.

i don't think i need therapy. or maybe i do, but i don't think that i would be taken seriously enough, and i can't afford to go private for it. sonic youth fans are my therapist.

i do try and think constructively whenever i get into a state, i write a lot of personal reflection type stuff which can be really helpful, but at the end of the day i feel i need some objectivity so i can look at my life without all my stupid hangups in the way and sort out whats good and whats not.

There's a lot of assumptions I would need to make in order to answer the first post. Is your lack of confidence coming from your appearence or behavior? Is it an identity crisis or a fear of rejection/disapproval? Both Danny and !@#$! each show an avenue. It could be something else. I would suggest you to consult a psychologist on the matter instead of a message board but, for my experience, they usually seem to ask the wrong questions. Working it out for yourself, if you are strong enough, is the best course.

I also should add that people that go through such personal, existential trials usually end up to be more aware, mentally-strong individuals. At least from what I've gathered.

i just accept the things that i would like to change about myself but can't. for example, i will always be needing to be in a relationship, even when i try to tell myself i don't need to be in one i can't change myself no matter how much i want to. but then again if i was forced to change something about myself that was destroying me than i would and could. i don't know maybe that's not the answer you're expecting.

you're right though a lot of people have been down on this board lately. that includes myself. i think that will change after i move though. i'm just going through a depression because of boredom.

For me, it's different...

I don't really get depressed, but sometimes I get strong feelings of apathy towards the world around me.

But lately, I've caught myself thinking more and more about the future.
I'm finding it easier to be optimistic about the world around me.
Feelings of apathy are slowly diminishing
Creative juices are flowing.

My own personal renaissance.

Awesome.

I've never looked at it that way . Or at least , I have never been able to trust that idea , ever . Hmm .

so you'd rather beat yourself up mentally until you're ready to hang yourself?





ouch.

That's cool:)

rereading the "hmmm" i realize you might be willing to give it a try?

definitely do-- what do you have to lose?

you've probably heard that definition of insanity as trying the same thing over & over & expect different results-- right?

the trick is to catch yourself at the begining of the self-destructive inner diatribe & just pull the plug on it-- refuse to participate.

you might find yourself laughing at the foolishness of that little judge inside your head. he's likely to be a ceaseless chatterbox like mine was, ha ha ha.

nag, nag, nag... :D

From the Buddhist perspective, there is no self to change. A Zen Buddhist would tell you your first mistake is thinking there is a solid self to change when in fact your self is in itself change--that is, if the Buddhist were an asshole.

For better advice, you should read Pema Chodron's The Wisdom of No Escape. She's an ordained Tibetan Buddhist and gives some heartfelt advice, to quote from the cover blurb, about "about making friends with ourselves and our world, about accepting the delightful and painful situation of no-exit. It exhorts us to wake up wholeheartedly and to use the abundant richly textured fabric of everyday life as our primary spiritual teacher and guide."

It's actually much better than it sounds. I read it a few years back when I was feeling down and it really helped. I still go back to it now and then when I'm feeling weird about things.

It's an easy read, too.

I know how you're feeling.

There are so many things I want to change about myself right now that it's kind of ridiculous.

I'm thinking that I need to get out and experience things, and let myself change naturally. That sounds weird, but I hope you get what I mean? Rather than just up and changing yourself one day. I want to be myself more, not that I'm phony, just that I don't show myself a whole lot. I want to do things that make me happen rather than sticking with routine.

Anyways, now I'm rambling ;)

Its true..cognitive behavioral therapy 101 . Lately I have been getting better at that . Where I always get stuck at is actually integrating ACTION into my life . I'll halt the negativity , only so far as ignoring it but not really changing my bad habits . If I get into a phase of very good behavior (living healthier , etc ) thats all it is, is a phase , and I dont come out of it with the bad thoughts returning , I just get bored and forget all about it . Its lazyness . Eventually I realize that I trailed off and failed again , and am returned to the beginning .

you're right. absolutely.

i'm not going to hold myself in contempt and beat myself up for stupid mistakes i make or little things that i do. i'm human. i've got a right to make errors and everyone does it and worrying about it is a waste of time and causes a lot of harm and little good.
of course there's nothing wrong with correcting mistakes that you make, but it's okay to make them. and it's okay to improve upon yourself.

there's actually something that kurt cobain said that i think would be appropriate to mention...how some parents yell and scream and in some instances become physically abusive towards their children for making mistakes or having accidents, like spilling a drink or breaking something, and how that's a sick psychological trick to play on a child. which it is, because by doing that, they become conditioned to behave the same way towards their children and they beat themselves up for making insignificant errors.

oh i didnt know that was cognitive therapy-- i kinda landed onto that after reading "shame theory"-- ha ha-- well it's not called like that, it's family systems theory which shows how fucked up behaviors like addiction, violence, abuse are handed down from one generation to the next one-- teaching people self-hate & destructive behaviors-- even when meaning well.

my parents meant well but they were hardasses-- nothing i did was ever good enough so i was never "good". hence i learned to not give a shit & then hate myself for being an underachiever.

wow, i got confessional on the board. but fuckit, it's for a good cause.

so anyway, fast forward to a few years ago, i had that eureka moment when i realized that i was working for the enemy. criticizing and punishing myself mentally for my "flaws"-- as if i could ever solve them all-- and sapping my energy into horrid depressive states.

so i refused to participate & with practice it became easy. i had other techniques/readings/theories/therapies/shit to rely upon so it was a sort of critical mass when shit eventually happened.

but yeah, you gotta keep working on it even when there seems to be no progress.


that's basically family systems theory. it shows you how you're not an "individual" in the world but learned who you are in the context of a family system-- dysfunctional families breed dysfunctional individuals, etc.

there's a guy by the name of bradshaw who is/was a brilliant shrink & a recover(ing?) alkie who did some PBS shows back in the day and wrote a few books also. he's no william faulkner but he's got great insights on how this shit works and how to extricate oneself from it. i don't agree 100% with what he says (he's religious, i'm not), but anyone can appreciate the useful parts.

anyway my dear interweb bots, i gotta go hang out w/ madame !@#$%!, who smells yummy.

good nights.

yeah, i didn;t know there was a name for that theory. your kids will turn out like you etc. well no surprise there.


hi mom! hi dad!

you know how i know you guys are gay?

cause you listen to coldplay


oooooh!!!!!!

one of my main goals in life is to train myself not to turn into my dad

Somehow i have dected a certain pattern on this post by Danny and some others by him:

You talk about youthful confidence, but then very often you seem to remind others about your youthfulness/age in the content of some what you post. Isn' that the very sign of a certain lack of confidence in yourself, like to say before every sentence ''Hey I can get away with many a mistake, even though I know where I am going wrong, just because I am young, therefore my own silliness is justified, even though it really isn't in this case''?

Don't take that as mean criticism, just a direct observation from someone who is generally confident in himself for real.

If you feel down about certain aspects of yourself, be they physical, mental, social etc, probably it's better if you go to the root cause of why they are making you feel disatisfied in the first place.

If there's something physical/mental about yourself that scratches on the surface of your confidence, perhaps it's good to check that it is coming from the way you want to be perceived by others, rather than the way others perceive you.

You get people who spend way too much time worrying about what their friends/family have to say/think about them, without even stopping to think that those criticisms might be coming from people who have a hidden lack of confidence in themselves, yet they manage to disguise it by being more vociferous in their criticism of others.

So much good advice here. Everyone's so profound....

I had a squizz at yr profile and according to that, you're just turned 20. So time is definitely on yr side. The only thing I can add is that over time, you develop your sense of self-awareness and you'll be a lot more sure of yourself. Hopefully, this will enable you to deal with the negativity that comes from yourself and the world around you.

Overall, be happy with who are. And this doesn't mean avoiding change - change is good. It's natural. It might be something superficial like getting a new look or maybe something deeper... I dunno.

But deep down, know that you are a good person who is intelligent, caring and honest (That doesn't mean you can't lie - it just means not being fake). Them's the foundations of something to build on - I believe.

And yeah - go out with your friends and let yr hair down, fer chrissakes!!

That is true. The only hard thing (for me, personally) is to realise that fact truly for myself. I mean, I can talk about that and all, but it doesn't seem to work - I always keep judging myself, assessing every single step I take and it's killing me quite much.
It's ironic, but sometimes one need a shrink to learn how not to give a fuck.

fortunately i don't think i have to. he's the treasurer of a company and goes to meetings and sits behind a desk all day.

no thanks.

i meant in the way he deals with and treats other people, not so much following in his footsteps careerwise. it's too late for that too happen anyway, not that i would want it to.

well that's not exactly what i was getting at. i was getting at the fact that he's boring and soulless and does the same thing every day and is completely consumed by his work and not happy going to work. he collects state quarters. the only thing he does for entertainment is watch golf or play golf. he's a perfectly decent human being though, even if he was almost entirely absent for most of my life.

I know what you mean. I don't really necessarily mean all of that "I'm young and inexperienced" malarkey- there are some things I'm terribly ignorant about and I'll be the first to admit that, but also there are other things I understand fully, I just don't want to be smug and twattish about it. Think of those remarks of mine as little disclaimers to ward off any complaining old shits like Atari.

Absolutely. I took certain posts of yours as an example simply because they are well tought-out and more mature than a lot of older posters on here, therefore extra kudos to you for being like that at your age.

LONG LIVE DANNY! HOORAY!

Woo hoo!

the real true value of humanity, of being human, is the never ending endeavor for self-betterment, in every respect.
there are things we accept, but that does not mean you sghould not actively seek to "fix" them, or better them. acceptance is not the same thing as giving up.

Yeah, go to a bookstore and watch all the people circling the self-help section.

That is funny. I have money to spend on therapy. Who needs self-help books.