Fuck's Sake Where Are We Living
 

I was at my grandma's house and I saw that new publicity on TV that goes "overtime is heaven" ; "government can do nothing to improve your buying power" (more or less) AND FUCK'S SAKE IT'S OUTRAGEOUS it seriously makes me wanna go in the street and break something,
gosh they're gonna broadcast that advert fucking 1600 times, and it's like "listen to it over and over and believe it you motherfuckin sheep", and nobody (including me) will do or say something about it cause we know we can't do anything
I'm scandalized
It's just pure brainwashing, it's propaganda

:fuckyou: :fuckyou: :fuckyou:

BUT EVERYTHING'S WELL INGRID BETANCOURT IS FREE!!

I Wanna Do Something But I Can't Do Anything

fuckin 4.2 millions euros that ad costed. let's limitate the wastes

This is a french ad from our government.
http://www.lexpress.fr/actualite/eco...ub_515496.html
It's in french, sorry.

the doll says it all,guess it's just the credit crunch,again and again.......and again.

hhahahaha nice one:cool:

Propaganda ???




Maybe a little bit...

i don't get any of this.

do you mean that you don't understand the picsor the subject of the thread ?

both.

oh now i understand, this was a french issue

ANYWAY

i think it makes sense to work more when your workweek is only 35 hours, i mean, the socialist plan to cut down the workweek so that more people would have jobs is kinda retarded, it spreads poverty instead of wealth, it reduces productivity in a competitive world.

it seems to me that france has in the past half century kicked ass economically only under more pro-capitalist's governments (giscard's, for example, though he waqs fucked by oil), while socialists plans have brought only temporary fixes that lead ultimately to economic stagnation.

sure this scheme of short working hours and 2-month vacations sounds sweet and wonderful, but only if everyone else around the world did it-- at this rate, other countries will end up eating france alive, economically.

the alternative is what-- robotics, maybe? but robotics displaces the working class.

one huge problem i've read about is that france's business people and entrepreneurs tend to migrate-- either to england or to the united states, where they have the opportunity to get away from burdensome government regulations that kill their chances to ever launch a successful business.

anyway, maybe you guys could try some free economic zones-- say, for example, take a chunk of marseille and establish a hong-kong-like laissez-faire capitalism enterprise zone, free of regulations, and taxes, and socialistic schemes, and see what happens with that.

just saying-- i think france is an awesome country but too much stubbornness will be your undoing.

Tha alternative is tourism , weapons trade and champagne.

First of all you have to explain which governments are not pro-capitalism in France or not, second it would be interesting how you'd explain what you've written above in more detail.

well i am not sure if i meant pro-capitalism or pro-free enterprise. maybe i just meant pro-free enterprise. i was slapping words together late at night with the tv on and a book in my hand.

but anyway, let's see if i can clarify:

and it seems to me that while the all of postwar the french economy was characterized by dirigisme, at some point that stopped working, and the socialists (miterrand as president, jospin as prime minister), rather than realizing the world was going elsewhere dug themselves in the losing position of subsidizing state industries and maintaining a huge regulatory apparatus that made it very difficult for startups in the post-industrial era. i suppose in the case of france, the gaullistes have been for dirigisme as well, and hence the problem.

but really it's time to end it because, while france had the concorde and they had minitel before everyone else had the internet, silicon valley flourished in the u.s.-- why?

maybe this article will help clarify a little-- i'm no expert in the french economy, i just read newspapers and magazines

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...3/b3997064.htm

and while syrfox might be pissed that the government wants people to work more, i think it's not a bad idea considering that until recently it was asking them to work LESS-- and who in their right mind would do that? it's just wrong and unrealistic to expect that life will consist mainly of leisure... even in the utopia that is star trek, the fuckers have to do their jobs!

anyway, read that article and maybe that explains why young ambitious frenchies go to work in london instead of contributing to their own economy.

One thing about work in France - 35 hours is the rule.
But some companies keep working 39 (check the ANPE site, you'll find). Some offer brilliant contracts of 12 hours. My last contract was 15, and I wanted more.

The mother of the 35 hours week, Martine Aubry, mentioned that the French unions are extremely weak. Which meant employees needed someone else's help to face their bosses.
Hence the law.
Now France is gonna work like any other country : bosses and unions discuss conditions and let it go. Given that being in an union in France leads you to the waste basket (I could give you examples among my friends), the French worker's fear is that he'll be used, overused and so on. Because nothing has been made to promote the unions.

By the way, the 35 hours didn't reduce productivity. French productivity's quite good.

"Work more, earn more" was the ridiculous deal.
Among my colleagues were workalcoholics and lazy ones. A lazy girl was truly great once she started working. A workaholic was a disaster as he never read any file and kept requesting things from suppliers (requesting information that had already been given and transcripted), because it was easier, and you could do that often. Repeated activity seemed a proof of quality. But it was only wankery.
"Work more, earn more".
Sarkozy moves a lot and believes he's working. Poor turd.

Now, our president is addicted to agression.
This is rather new here.
What he did in July so far :
- He reshaped public television; he offered private television more space for advertising and banned all advertising/commercial on public TV, so that private TV's wealth increases (one of his closest friends owns a channel); public TV? € 650 million are looked for; who's gonna pay? Your guess.
- He agressed the whole army, treated every single general an amateur because of an isolated drama.
- He happily proclaimed that when a strike happened in France now, noone could hear.

See how weak unions are when the French right wing is on top.

Vous ne souhaitez pas augmenter la redevance audiovisuelle. Comment, dans ce cas, maintenir l’effort de création d’un service public déjà sous-financé ?
J’ai une conception exigeante du service public audiovisuel, et je veux renforcer les obligations culturelles et éducatives qui pèsent sur les chaînes. Pour disposer des ressources nécessaires, je ne propose effectivement pas une augmentation de la redevance, car il y a déjà trop de prélèvements obligatoires dans notre pays. Je pense qu’une augmentation des ressources publicitaires et des ressources tirées des produits dérivés est possible, et qu’elle ne dénature pas le service public audiovisuel.

Bold : Emmanuel Berretta, itallics Sarkozy; interview given the 18/04/2007 (in Le Point).
For those who don't read French, in April last year Sarkozy said he'd have more commercials on public TV. And in february this year, he said commercials would be banned from public TV.

And I did not mentioned foreigners.

Politician in "full of shit" shocker. Our lot over here are a even bigger shower of cunts, so we can't talk.

im not saying sarkoma is not an asshole, and he may be doing this ass-backwards, but do you agree that letting go of an old economic model is necessary for your future survival, or no?

im not sure i understand everything you wrote, but seems to me that your perspective is that "someone" needs to look out for the unions-- aren't unions supposed to take care of themselves?

anyway, i did a little google on your productivity point and it looks like yeah, french productivity is not as bad as i thought.

here's a quote from forbes:

According to a 2003 survey of 25 industrialized countries conducted by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), the French do work less than most others. They clocked an average 1,431 hours per year. Even allowing six weeks vacation, this works out to just 31 hours per week, less than even "les heures" would dictate. But Norwegian and Dutch employees worked even less. German workers, who traditionally have been viewed as paragons of industrial effort, put in 1,446 hours, barely more than the French. British (1,673 hours), Americans (1,792 hours) and Koreans (2,390 hours) worked substantially more.

Ranked by "competitiveness," France fares poorly, as ranked by a World Economic Forum survey. France places 27th, behind Chile, Spain, Belgium, Portugal and Luxembourg. But the even lazier Norwegians and Dutch rank 6th and 12th respectively. Korea places two rungs below France.

Still, French workers remain among the most productive in the world, ahead of Britain, Germany, the United States and Japan, according to the European statistics agency Eurostat, the AP reports.

In terms of gross national income per capita (GNI) as measured by the World Bank, France ranks 23rd with a GNI of $24,770. The U.S. is well-ahead in 5th place at $37,610. But again, Norway, which works less, makes more, more even than the U.S. Germany is about $500 ahead of France.

Another interesting fact is that between 1995 and 2003, France actually increased its work hours, albeit slightly, despite the 35-hour law, according to the OECD. In the last two years of that span, however, its work hours declined. In recent years, France's GDP growth rate has slowed. The same is true of Germany. But growth in Korea and the U.S., which each work more hours, has increased.

As a nation, France boasts 33 entries in the Forbes 2000 list of the world's largest companies, including Total (nyse: TOT - news - people ), BNP (otc: BNPQY - news - people ), AXA Group (nyse: AXA - news - people ), Societe Generale Group (otc: SCGLY - news - people ), and Renault in the top 100.

All told, the French worker is a fairly productive sort, even with all that cheese. But there is some evidence of slippage, and adding a few hours, or at least letting those so inclined work a bit more, is likely to help.

--
the whole article (i just posted the last part) is here:
http://www.forbes.com/2005/03/22/cx_...ews_print.html

--

so what's the cause of france's economic problems, you'd say?

no no you didn't get the point of my post, the problem is that they paid 4330000€ for a TV publicity that's being broadcast 1600 times on television, repeating slogans saying "you're impatient to win more while working more", just like if we were dogs raging; that's propaganda

oh you mean you're just annoyed for the money spent on the repetition? yeah that flew way above my head.

well maybe some misguided bullshit, i don't know. i'm more interested in the big picture though-- sorry for the hijack ha ha ha.

One way to quieten the fury of the French working-man: get Carla Sarkozy to strip and masturbate herself blind on national TV.

how about a lottery whereby farmers and factory workers and office drones get to fuck her blind? on tv, of course!

Thanks for the Forbes article.

And the suggestion above. The first one. The second lacks charm. Poor sweet heart. Everybody would want to hug her and pet her and kiss her and hug her and pet her and kiss her. But not on TV.

Sarkozy says he wants people to work more. I'd like more people to work.
But I don't know how.

The solution Sarkozy offered when he came was "work more, earn more". He meant overtime hours (that always existed).Extra hours apply to those who already have a job. Those who don't aren't considered. They're out. Out too are part time jobs held by people who'd like to work more on a regular basis.
Sarkozy, as a candidate, his ministers now, acted as if obtaining overtime hours was a worker's initiative, when it ain't. A worker going to his boss saying he/she worked 45 minutes overtime, can I get paid for that will hear "no; obviously, you haven't been able to work properly in due time; so no". This was the policy in one of the companies I worked for.

So Sarkozy increased the amount of extra hours (I don't have the figure, but think it's around 200 extra hours per employee).
These hours are paid on a different salary basis. Your hourly salary + 25% of it. There's a law stating that.

And what's just came on now is - and that's why I mentioned unions being weak - less than a year after Sarkozy's decision, companies will be able to negociate with the syndicate members of their plants and offices the following things :
- How many hours will one work? On a regular basis. The law said 35 hours, but, if almost everyone in the company (almost means bosses and any union representing 30% of the employees under pressure) agrees, employees could work more, or less. Less is already existing. More, not. Up to 48 hours. Or 68. Depending on sources.
- How much more will extra hours be paid? The law said 25%. The recent governmental action has now given all latitude to negociate it. It could be more (what a laugh), or less. But no less than 10%. From 25% to 10%, in almost a year. Work more to earn more.

So yes, to make France stronger things are done to help companies, yes. But companies are not the French, and the worker's share of the profits is being gnawed off.

The commercial that SYRFox mentioned is designed to quiet people on that topic, asking them to be less impatient (when their president ain't).
€ 4.33 millions for that purpose.
That's why SYRFox puked.

And I think he shouldn't have. I sent a letter to the Elysée to inform the president of this deviant character's attitude. The letter should work. Denoucing to authorities is back in style. http://www.rue89.com/2008/07/05/lele...-est-convoquee

All we can do for now is finding examples of how Sarkozy's lied, cheated, withdrew and so on, to prevent his voters from electing him again in 2012.

I'm salaried - I work extra hours all the time. I never get overtime. I'm responsible to get things done and I do.

WAR IS PEACE.

FREEDOM IS SLAVERY.

IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH.

what was that for?
PS: have you noticed the black dude in g-stringon the left? haha:eek:

Mr Symbol,
I'm not here to talk about politic, but in France, one of their first principle was to improve people's life. You know, vacations, social insurance, Minimal salary for living... Development was supposed to improve people's life. it used to work, but new capitalism killed this dream.
You can say it's "dirigisme", we call it "redistribution". Now most the money goes to speculators, rich people, not to people who work.
The cult of money has swept aside social and cutural progress.
Progress was supposed to improve people's life, at the beginning, no ?
It's just a point of view.

thats exactly what it was for

i saw that on television the other day

pretty fucking outrageous. socialist pigs. i'm sorry, i love the french, but your government is retarded.

yeah i agree but

if your french factory has to compete with a vietnamese factory full of hungry workers who don't mind working 60 hours a week because they really need the money, guess who's gonna win in the end?

im an immigrant from a 3rd world country so i know what i speak of.



anyway, ha ha, i am HUNGRY and i mean for dinner! sorry i can't reply more right now.

so here's a followup ive been thinking about:

to want more & more vacation while the country is going to shit seems to me like decadence-- i understand enjoying while you can but when things get difficult you have to adapt or your competitor will have your inner organs for lunch.


unemployment in france has been at 8% since forever.

however, one must admit, the poverty rate is much lower than in more so-called "vibrant" countries like germany or the uk or the u.s and the gap between the rich and the poor is lesser too.

so i guess-- it depends on what you want out of your economy. i'm not opposed to a higher standard of living as long as it doesnt destroy you-- look at what the "higher standard of living" gave the US: gas-guzzling SUVs and higher carbon emissions.

but anyway, the problem is that with the global economy other countries are going to be able to produce things cheaper and faster and adapt more creatively, so you can't hope that you'll be on the top of the world forever. seems to me that with the excellent education in france the jobs should come from technology, research, aerospace, etc-- and in part they do, but unless people with talent are given the chance to start businesses in their own country there's going to be a brain drain.

the only alternative way that i can see is if france was able to export its social protections to other countries... so that everyone is competing on a level (and more benevolent) playing field. however, without power and influence, that doesn't happen.

not sure how this works internally within the european union, as im quite ignorant of european union policies and politics, but it seems that while some countries have been growing quite fast (ireland, spain), and some seem to always have (germany) france hasn't in quite a while.

Yeah, Agreed.
I know it's impossible, but I'd like my economy to give all the people a decent life, a higher standard than now, and I'd like other countries to have pretty much the same standard. And no dictatorship. Etc... But I know we're living in a wonderful capitalist world ( you can call it "global economy", it's just a more acceptable word for capitalism).
And our business model is probably dead, but don't worry, our government takes measures to fix the problem, our system is going to be more and more like the anglo-saxon system. Like European Union wants France to be. I'm very happy. No more social protection. That's so modern !!!





I hate to talk about politic, it's too frustrating.

well, think of this-- marx said that for communism to arrive, capitalism had to triumph first.

one of the reasons the previous incarnations of marxism failed (among many others) is that these were ideological impositions on rural societies (russia, china, cuba) rather than the natural evolution of capitalism... assuming marx wasn't wrong, which of course he was, and in many ways, but that's another story.

but still, we can preserve this kernel of truth-- once capitalism has spread around the globe, there is no possible "undeveloped country" where the factories can be moved. and you have the possibility of transnational unions---just like transnational corporations.

for example, my dad used to work for volvo, and the swedish company had a strong union, so the local union was strong too, as it was supported by the swedish one. later volvo was bought up by an american company and all was fucked i suppose-- haven't followed lately.

but anyway-- right now, if you are a worker who bitches too much, the owners say "well fuckit, we're moving to china (or singapore or bangladesh)"

but once the chinese or singa-something, or bangladeshis, are making good salaries, have a decent standard of living, etc. etc., they will want social protections too. they will want clean air and clean water and long vacations.

so there is hope-- however, in the short run, you have to adapt or get assraped by the system-- it's kind of a survival thing.

i'm not for working your ass off with no possibility of enjoyment-- but i'm 100% for survival and keeping an eye on the road ahead before i get smashed-- oh yeah. and for this, you gotta do what you gotta do. just saying.

I hope, I hope...
But it's difficult for middle class people to accept to lower their standard of living while rich people are getting richer and richer. And I don't talk about moneyless people...

yeah, no question about that, it goes from merely uncomfortable to outright traumatic--

but if you can convice china to pay better wages (it will happen on its own, trust me), thing will work out for the better.

HOWEVER, i don't think that the fact that someone gave you a job X years ago means now that they owe you a job for life-- that makes absolutely no sense to me. nobody owes me any security. i'm not a child.

anyway, we'll see-- history is much much bigger than tiny individuals like us, ha ha ha---

For sure !!!