music/capitalism
 

I've been finding it hard to take music seriously or give much of a shit about whatever points the artist is trying to put across the more I learn about politics. An artists ego can seem like a pretty fake thing in comparison to what actually goes on in the world.

how does capitalism either degradate or enhance yr emotional involvement in music?

does the commodification of music rob it of artistic integrity?

what real difference can art make to an individual enslaved in capitalism? doesnt it just fufill us with fantasies of becoming a member of the class that enslaves us? is it not counter productive to buy into the egos of a musician dependant on you to ride out their little narcissitic mythical fantasy of self?

is it not pathetic to simply praise those that make art that highlights issues and worship the idea of highlighting issues for people who get a kick out of the supposed authenticity of the art which does this instead of actually doing something about it?


the bitterness of this is just me letting off steam.
maybe im just getting older and jaded... i dunno... it seems like i cant care anymore... which i find really sad.

que?

This post brought to you by First World Musings.

and how should musicians make a living for themselves? if anything there is something to be admired in a person earning a living through the fruits of their labour.

yes! but that is not problem, i think the problem is when the artist compromise the artistic integrity in benefit of what he can earn with that, and the capitalism easily change the artistic ego $$$$$$$$ in these days ($ MTV $)!!!!
you think sonic youth is compromise by capitalism?

Keiji Haino and SunnO))) seem to do OK sans compromise.

i don't think i buy records by bands that are on mtv these days, and it's not like all i listen is super underground music.

the fact that the have existed for a few years and are able to tour and everything tells they are doing ok.

I think Sonic Youth is more compromised by hipster worrying that they are being compromised than by anything else.

sorry what were you saying... i was too busy blowing my nose in my 100 euro note.....

...

Certainly sometimes music is damaged by being a commodity, or at least it has been throughout time.

However, I think the current economic collapse of the record label economic model and relatively inexpensive means of independent (and I mean that on a personal level not "indie" level) production and distribution, make this the time to stop musing so much over the old problem rather than start.

Any one of us, for very little money can make recordings that sound pretty damn close to what was once considered "professional quality" and put them in the ears of people around the world at next to no personal cost. Who needs to sell your soul to the record label in that environment? Nothing against those that do so to make a living, I really love the music of some of them. It's just not necessary anymore, which in turn gives new freedom to those who do work within the old system. It's a lot harder for the big label to tell you how to sound (or dress!) if you don't need them to get your music recorded and heard in the first place.

I agree with Dead-Air here. Whether we can truly escape capitalism in creating art is debatable, but ironically, at a point in history where capitalism has reached such a global dominance, the creation and distribution of music seems less hampered by it now than at any time I can think of. I increasingly have less time for artists signed to large-scale commercial labels (be they 'majors' or so-called 'indies'), not necessarily because of the direct effect it has on their music, but because it's unnecessary. OK, it gives their music a higher media/store profile and potentially generates more income for them, but if that's all it really offers, doesn't it just show how ego and money obsessed most artists really are?

I don't see why its so bad for artists to be able to afford health insurance. Food. Housing. But money and fame have their own kind of gravity, the more you have, the more it attracts.

Its the fashion people that disgust me.

One of the things that actually goes on in the world is art. Find me a people, however impoverished, who don't make music about how great that bird's knockers are, or how sunshine's really quite alright, and I'll give you 10 fresh pounds of sterling. Artists have egos. Their political contribution is different, there's no hierarchy of politics at this level.

Why did the Teleban ban music? Or why did the USSR legislate for 'good' music? What happened to Paul Robeson? [This is, of course, not to mention books, films and visual art]


This question is a non-sequitur. Capitalism doesn't directly affect my personally, I am one of its affects if anything.


No. What is a commodity? A record, or a written piece of music, or just a memory of a song? Does it make any odds to the individual? Or, from another perspective, where is this artistic integrity?


Why are you being such a patronising cunt?


If you want to do something, do something. Stop whinging at other people. If I want to listen to Billy Bragg, I will. "I'm not coming to the revolution if I can't dance".

Otherwise, what 'marras said.

I like that. this is an interesting but also confusing topic. I thought Dead-Air made some good points too (also, is that a reference to heatmiser?) and certainly the rules are changing. The rules are changing and this is the only thing that makes me think that it's possible that the next great movement in music could be coming. But it's probably not.
Sure, most of modern life now is based on commodity. If i get no commitments and some mild form of dyslexia I could pretty happily live the rest of my life on hand outs and die of cancer in my early 40's or some shit. Music - in the way that it's delivered and received - is most defiantly a luxury and not needed for survival (though it keeps me sane) There is also a big split in my mind between when it is a social thing and when it is a personal thing.
Music - in and of itself is something thats far more carnal, however, and core to the human existence than commodity or capitalism or any of these bullshit invention words of man that could never really mean anything. Whereas music can if you're not shallow.
We live in a time when there's far too much information but nobody knows fuck all. I'm just a stupid cunt that's going to die, just like you, not worth anything.
Any great movement, or just music, comes from anything that, not necisarily rejects the norm - it's just separate... it doesnt care about the norm. It's not concerned. I see many "alternative" bands and they're just the fucking same - just like the pop bands. The majority of people can't differentiate what it is that separates them because all they can see is the big swinging cock of acceptance... this is where all the cunts and the capitalists spawn from... and the money and shit comes in and fucks it up. it dies. you either wait for the next thing or give up and think there was only one good thing that ever existed ever. (in terms of music). And it's like no grey area exists but the right people will know. And know that I'm off my fucking head right now,l I really hope the human race gets wiped out one day soon.

stop whinging?

do you even listen to yourself?

glice, noone is impressed by yr ability to respond to things people say by being a cunt.

Yeah, and everyone is really impressed with your ability to sit on some kind of self-satisfied high horse acting like you know everyone's fucking motivation for doing what they do.
I guess everyone has some sort of ulterior, self-serving motive for creating what they create. You know, except you.
Because you're Mister Pure.
Drop me a line sometime with some photos of that self contained and self-sustaining compound you've started on that one island that you found, didn't have to pay anyone for and didn't have to kick any indigenous people off of. I'm sure it's lovely.
Jesus fucking Christ, these kinds of tail-eating circular arguments are tedious.

How many times do I have to say, "music is music"?

All you know about me is what I've sold you, Dumb fuck.
I sold out long before you ever even heard my name.
I sold my soul to make a record, Dip shit,
And then you bought one.
All you read and wear or see and hear on TV
Is a product begging for your fatass dirty dollar so
... Shut up and
Buy. Buy. Buy. Buy my new record.
Buy. Buy. Buy. Send more money

What? acting like i know everyone's motivation for doing what they do? I don't know how you can infer that from what I said. Bit of a leap there, since i was talking about specific things, not EVERYTHING.

Whats this Mr. Pure stuff? What the fuck? I never even said I created anything in the first place, yet you assume I do? Haha, sounds a bit defensive of you.

I don't even get you to be honest.

But its obvious how much of a dick you're acting. Hope I didn't invalidate any of yr shitty fantasies!

Hahaha "Mister Pure".

No offense to anybody or anything, I'm not in this argument, but the term "Mister Pure" made me laugh out loud.

OK then, lets' go back to the beginning...




Art will exist no matter what "actually goes on in the world." People have a drive to create art that goes back to the beginning of our existence. It is not all some kind of effort to inflate or further the ego of its creator. Most of it (the vast majority, I daresay, good or bad) just comes out of people because they want to make it for ENJOYMENT.




It doesn't HAVE to make a difference to those of us "enslaved in capitalism." "Enslaved" isn't a word you would use lightly if you had any real connection to actual enslavement either. Yeesh; being born into a society you can't change and finding it frustrating isn't really "enslavement." It's the same conundrum we all face every fucking day. Art makes it a little less miserable for me, both via creating it myself and experiencing that which is made by others. NONE of us are going to "break down the machine," for god's sake.

And I hate to disappoint you, but most of us making art and music don't "depend" on the validation of people fawning all over us in order to "maintain a little narcissistic fantasy world." All the ivory-tower musing in the world won't change that.
I might be coming off as a bit of a dick, yes, but sanctimonious "theorizing" just brings out that side of me, I guess.

i didn't know tom morello posted on this board.

It's a question of style darling. Do you pose a series of heavily loaded questions mired in convoluted, naif-leftist logic and you expect me to respond with pithy aphorisms affirming your juvenile lack of perspective? Or do you pose a series of questions because you want people's opinions? I was taking the piss, yes, but you were taking the piss without realising, it seems.

The fact that Sub Pop let individual subscribers buy up to five subscriptions of their new singles club is one example of capitalism making music a big bummer for me. So, I went outta town for a few days and was nowhere near a computer, and then I came back to work and found out it was sold out. Ah well.....I really only wanted the Tyvek and Mika Miko singles.

Rep coming your way in spades. I have been thinking about this tons, of late. All this whinging and overanalizing I came to the conclusion comes from people WHO MAKE NOTHING FOR THEIR OWN ENJOYMENT AND THAT OF OTHERS. They just sit down whinging and pontificating their way into a mediocre grave, without having produced anything other than a fucking pile of opinions about this or that, which ultimately has 0 relevance to how things are created and enjoyed by others, apart from a few close chums.

couldnt spread the rep even if its deserved here badly

Yeah, great style there man "mired in convoluted, naif-leftist logic"

You get ++ style points for using the word leftist to try to infer some sort of higher contextual intelligence on yr part. Very original. "juvenile lack of perspective", seems like yr just throwing phrases around here without any actual substantial critique of what I said in the first place. Oh no sorry! It's leftist and juvenile! There we go debate over! And don't flatter yourself, I never expected any kind of response from you at all.

a gee gee gee