Rather Ripped? Disillusion.
 

I like pop music, I like even R.E.M. and I'm big Throwing Muses fan...and I think that Sonic Youth (one of the most inspiring band in my life) always have some kind of pop aspect in their songs (voice copying guitar-melody-line in unisono etc.) So I don't care if the new LP is rather pop-based than dissonant-like.
But: As we can see on every live show after every new release - Lee Ranaldo isn't really into it...he often plays out of rhythm, he looks confused in the fingering (Sonic Nurse shows from 2004 are often really funny...) and I guess he doesn't like this way of music/sonic evolution - especially when we talk about his "lead" guitar parts...RR songs played live show it as well.
Thurston still acts like teenager who wants to be the kooolest person ever, Kim plays two tones in every song and she gets stacked in it and Steve...he doesn't play anything interesting (now).
They have no real "pop abilities".
I saw them on Letterman - the worst of their TV appearences.
Rather Ripped isn't a step forward and it isn't step back (and I rather want LP called a Rather a Step Back - in this case).
It is just something between T's Psychic Hearts and some pop nonsense.
It's still the best rock long-player of the year for me but it's the bigest disillusion for me at the same time.
What do you think?
:confused:

All This Talk Of Blood And Iron
Is The Cause
Of All My Shaking

They've been playing for 25 years and are constantly working on side projects. They've just developed and aged in slightly different directions. It's inevitable.

What I think is that you've just offered up the most cogent criticism thus far, follow.blind.

I disagree with your appraisal of the recent Letterman appearance though. The sound levels were the best I've ever heard for a live Sonic Youth TV appearance with the exception of the b&w Sunday from that European (French?) show.

I agree. It's not that great of a record and the band seem to be in less than top form. I just hope that the rumors that are going around aren't true and that the band will continue to work together and their next record will be something really worthwhile and amazing. A return to form, as it were.

Isn't better to wait one more year (there was this Jim's leaving etc.) and then make some REAL step forward...or anywhere...?

I also agree that Thurston's super cool attitude should disappear. It really comes off as pretentious and arrogant sometimes. It bugs me. And Kim does have very little musical abilities compared to the rest of the band members. Steve Shelley's drumming is less than inspired. I just think that right now, the band is in a bit of a funk. It happens. The good thing is, the band isn't on (hard) drugs, if any at all, and they aren't self-destructive people. Hopefully they'll just tough it out and write something even better next time.

I don't see how one can make the statement you did that confidently. The corollary is that they are on drugs, & that is equally unprovable.

I will offer forth that during their admitted time of heavy usage Thurston wrote Candle which cautioned, "I better change my mind before it burns out," & that Incinerate from the new album features the lyric, "I'll burn out anyhow."

I agree - it's better when they just pretend to be "ROCKers". :)

Isn't "Thurston's super cool attitude" something that you're projecting onto Thurston though? Isn't he just being himself?

As far as Kim not having any talent on guitar, I think that's hogwash. Like Thurston, she's not technically gifted, but she is very creative on guitar & that's probably the main reason why she is now playing a lot of guitar because she is the one coming up with those parts. There are a lot of virtuosic abilities that Lee, Kim & Thurston all display; no one else can sound like them. On a side tangent, I'm no Pat Metheny fan, but in a way, Lee reminds me of him because he takes simple lines & knows how to put them all together dynamically. Lee will make an excellent producer once he finds the right band to produce.

Perhaps the only real legitimate gripe that fans can possibly justify with Rather Ripped is that there is a lack of engaging drum parts which is only natural considering the style of the majority of the more "straightforward" songs that are being presented. Steve Shelley is at no loss for talent. He's the greatest drummer in the world and has been for a very long time & no one else in the band can claim that sort of complete & total world class ability on their instrument.

"Sunday" played on French TV was fantastic! Perfect sound, great image...A Thousand Leaves is my favorite SY era...

Maybe you're right - I saw it just twice (this Late Night 06)...and I think I'll make a final statement for myself in more than two months - like I always do. What about to watch it chronologically? I'll try it.

Dude, you just took the words right out of my mouth. I've never in my life thought Thurston to be arrogant....he's just insane and that's how we like it;)

Steve Shelley is one of the most creative drummers of the past 20 years. He really knows what (and when) to play .
I don't like educated drummers from famous conservatory and rednecks playing senseless stuff like for example Tool and other byceps-brain fanatics...
It's a pity that he play less than ever.

Huh? Super cool? I always saw him as kind of nerdy and funny.

I do agree that the band doesn't seem to be really tight when it comes to playing the new tracks from a couple of the bootlegs I've heard, Lee in particular seems to have trouble playing or even improvising with the leads he played on the record.

I agree completely with atari 2600. The times I've seen Thurston, he's been cordial and very approachable. He knows his records and music history well; perhaps his confidence is what you misake for 'supa cool attitude'?

I think you guys are over analyzing this record, tour and band.

Yea, they've been around for 25 years and people change. My musical tastes have changed a little too. The record is distinctively SY and the songs are great to listen to. Currently "Pink Steam" is my favorite, just a cool as fuck song musically and lyrically.

I thought their show in Asheville was great. I didn't lose interest the entire show and Kim had a great stage presence. I appreciate any band who knows how to entertain!

I love Thurston's attitude. He gets so excited on stage, and that's what it's all about. Nothing wrong with the other members, etiher. If they want to be more stoic, that's cool. Yeah, they had a few goofs when I saw them at CBGB, but who cares? When I see a live show, I can deal with that if the energy is there. Maybe it will improve as the tour progresses.

^ I have no idea what this sentence means....

But if it means that Rather Ripped is okay but not all that great, then I would agree.

Yr not really listening to me. I'm not calling Thurston pretentious. I said he comes across as pretentious. There is a subtle difference. True, I do not personally known the man. He may act the same way he has always acted. I don't know. I was just commenting on what I gathered from his physical gestures and the way he talks. Who knows, I might be wrong. I do feel that Kim is much less talented than the rest of the band members musically. She can write pretty interesting songs, though. I just think as far as musicianship goes, she is the least talented in the group. Although, being the least talented musician in Sonic Youth is still light years better than being the best musician in 99.9% of other popular rock bands right now. I still stand by my statments that Steve Shelley has not really shown his true colors on Rather Ripped, in fact in my opinion none of the band members are really showing their true colors.

But a mediocre Sonic Youth record is still much better than all of the other "great" rock albums that have come out recently that are being eaten up by the press. I'll take SY over My Chemical Romance or Thursday, Saves the Day or any of these other shitty rock bands any day of the week.

Absolutely

You wrote 'I also agree that Thurston's super cool attitude should disappear.' It's obvious atari understood you perfectly..you might not understand what atari's saying, though. No backpedalling!

Why do crazy people always say 'You're not really listening to me!'?

Still, I think there is a certain amount of overanalysis with this particular LP. I believe the less you think through this record and the more you feel it in your gut, the more likely you are to enjoy it. It's a very heartfelt record and it is showcasing a change in direction for Sonic Youth. With Sonic Nurse and Rather Ripped under their belt(which I think, along with Murray Street, are best enjoyed together, as a trilogy-cum-era piece), they can only move forward now, and I can hear hints of even greater heights to come in their music... Maybe something even surpassing their late 80s output, who knows? :) Groove on, SY Fans...

Just...you know - I usually listen to music in the tram. I think it's great to just sit and watch how everything pass by: I become an independent spectator; everything around is just like in a movie...
Sonic Youth's records are the ideal stimulant. One could almost feel the social-vibrations etc. (Yes, I'm very sensitive person :-) )
When I listen to Rather Ripped it has no effect, just a flat nothing.
And I feel bad about it.

Maybe later I found it inspiring...
(On the other side I must admit that it still rocks well.)

i think its nice

hey look, a sweet a sentiment! amazing.

Once again I agree, to a certain degree. When I listen to Sonic Youth's other records it really gets me amped up. They really know how to get yr energy flowing. But with this record, I don't really feel as much. The hint of energy is still lingering in some of the songs, but overall it's largely absent.

I do not mean to insult the band by any means what so ever. I love them and their music. It's just that in my opinion they released a bit of a lack-luster group of songs and called it an album. It just doesn't really hit you the way that all the other albums do. It's not their worst album but it is far from being one of their best. I'm not adverse to hearing some of their songs live on tour, some of them sound pretty good. It's just that as a whole Rather Ripped falls short. But it's not really their fault.

All musicians go through slumps. It happens to all musicians who have been around as long as Sonic Youth have. I mean come on! 25 years in the music industry and they have released very few songs and even fewer bad albums. If this is the weakest Sonic Youth can do then that's still pretty goddamn good. I know that a lot of other extremely talented musicians have done much worse than this. It may not be Sonic Youth in top form but it's still decent. Rather Ripped doesn't really suck, it just falls short of living up to the Sonic Youth legacy.

I dont hear rather ripped...cause we dont have it in Mexico yet.... so, if somebody knows when the album come to Mexico, please tell me

I agree...not only is it being over-analyzed, but I don't understand all this nonsense about the album not being good. It's the best thing they've done in years. This thread kind of makes me sick in a way.

Yr crazy, baby!!!! There's no way it's their best album in years. Just no way.

I personally love this album! You just have to understand its intent is different to other SY albums. Daydream Nation was very much a 1980's album, a poinent and inspiring portrait of late 80's america, Dirty was the album that highlighted all the musical and social conflicts of early 90's alternative scene. Rather Ripped however sets out to be a very 2006 album - The return to rock and songform can be seen to be reflective of how rock itself has seen a reinsurgence. Its a battle ground between art and 'catchy' rock, an album that proves both can exist. This is of course sub-concious but still its intention as a album.

all right follow.blind, i can understand yr. opinnion on rr album (which i like), but i don't understand and i must disagree with yr. statement about lee's out of rhytm, not like(ing) sonic evolution and that confusion(?). that's not true to me. he wouldn't do it, or do you think he's really doing it only coz a lot of bills? did you watch rock en seine '05? to me, he is the man of stage that evening and he enjoying it more than thurston (when we talking about recent past). with kim playing abilities and others.....it was always like this, wasn't it? and still eventhough kim aint no super skilled bass player, sy creates something extraordinary with that great feel, you wont find in case of any other band, never.

I do agree with you there. Lee is spot on with the new material. I was watching their latest Letterman performance of Incinerate and he was always on his mark and in synch with the rest of the band. No foul ups. Sonic Youth are too tightly regimented of a band to have such a central and talented musician to be fouling up such simple riffs.

Hi. I don't mean that Lee is bad guy ;-) Actually - I'm big fan of his work. I consider him to be very creative musician. His tracks are often between my personal "Top 3":cool: of every new sy record. But try to listen to a few bootlegs (and I'm pretty sure that you have a more of this stuff than I have) from the periods right after new releases - it seems he's often little unsure...but after a few gigs he - in my opinion - feels more confortable, starts to enjoy himself and he plays "real good feedback and super sounding riffs" :-)
Yes, you're right - his guitar makes the essential texture that covers Thurston's riffs and strummings and this "texture" leads to what we know as "SY sound".
About rhythm...I think that our guitar heroes aren't that accurate in this case. But they have great drummer who keeps time so almost everything sounds OK. And I'm not perfectionist or some snobbish academician (and I do rhythmic faults too - for example in transitions into some tremolo stuff etc... ) There's proof for head-less/fanatic lovers of SY (and I don't mean you, greenlight!!) who believe that their idols couldn't make some fucking rhythmic fault :-) : http://www.sonicyouth.com/gossip/showthread.php?t=360&page=8
download "Karen Revisited" and focus yourself on Lee...Yes! But anyway - they are awesome!;)
Kim Gordon...she plays really BAD (when we compare her with Jim O'Rourke, errr...indeed - iť's bad example - we all play really bad in comparison with Jim), BUT she puts so much energy in the whole performance. Some her easy bass lines are sweet and so significant and she IS Kim Gordon!
Rock En Seine? I don't consider it to be so good show (btw. it was '04 I guess) Did you watch Belfort (France too) 2005? (Eurockéennes Festival....)
It was really good! (and there was much more better playlist!)
For these who aren't familiar with dimedozen or eMule(there's DVDrip that fits one CD-R) there's my DVD-rip (from original compilation by Mr."Ducky"):
http://www.sonicyouth.com/gossip/showthread.php?t=360&page=7

Reason of "overanalysis" when RR came out?
It was very hyped record ("Sear Studio again!"...), interviews were promising (Do you remeber?---> LEE: "...some of it seems to be an extension of the last couple of records, but some hearkens forward into territory and also back to earlier, more dissonant and atonal stuff we've done...") and we were just curious (4 members again...).

So...I know that these fine guys from Sonic Youth play together for 25 years (btw. this is very poor apology for situation when the band release shity record...) and I respect them. Raher Ripped is good LP for this year, but I still think that it's not good enough for such great band as SY.


I just don't like to be duped easily.(We say "to get drunk on 'crescent roll'...")





'crescent roll'
(yes,yes - it IS breadstuff...FUCKing Freud):)

Wow. I'm tired. (There's 1:50am) Maybe I'm writing nonsenses. I hope you'll understand the context - at least.

I like you.

all of you who talk about Kim's 'poor' playing are driving me mad. ok, for example, when i started into SY i was really amazed about how Kim's singing (ex. WM, EJSTNS, CIS, most 'classic' SY LPs) is slightly out-of-tune but always very impressive and emotional. her playing is not virtoso, but hey-this is SY, not shred metal or something. her bass lines fit great on SY. about lee being static and out of rhythm- well this is clearly not true. especially on the last tour when i had the chance to see them live lee was very vital and sometimes leading, rocking hard like i've seen on vids, nothing to say he's bored about the SY idea. i also noticed RR has lots of vocal/riff unisons. this has been used in various other songs of SY, so what's wrong if they wanted to 'finish' the idea about it. i find songs like Lights Out extremely good, even though they are quite simple compared to other SY work.
RR is both very 'light' and 'poppy', it really feels weird from listening the first time, but i'm sure it's will grab me (personally) more and more with further listening. thats how all SY albums work for me.
and i really hope this is not one of the last SY we get. (i chant this mantra every time an album comes out since NYCGF)
peace on you boardies.

hi follow.blind!
shentov have put that nicely.
was it '04 rock in seine? (uff that time fly man!)
yes i saw belfort and it's better show, i agree, but i mentioned rock in seine only in connection with lee, where he is enjoying himself (in sy) more than the others (in sy) that night. i wanted to point out this video (f.e.) that he's not bored with sy. that's it. hopefully i'll see them this year live, so i can tell you how i personaly feel about that. and i like rr very much, i can understand, that many people have this feeling of "dull" album (yes, it's catchy and popy big time, compare to the previous releases), yet i think it's because we (they)was expecting something like.....
maybe i'm wrong (that's my feeling), but i think the album is like it is, because it was natural sy maturing, progressing (eventhough thurston wrote most of the songs?). if you listen to their recent gig from DC, short but exceptional noise parts can be found as well. good gig, with some faults though, hey but that's rock 'n' roll. yes it's not their best release but, maybe this have to be like that, coz their next one might be one of their finest.

peace attack!

The more I listen to it the more I LOVE IT> I loved Murray Streeta nd Nurse, Nurse more so that MS, but bth were great, yet melancholy albums. well, rather ripped is GREAT and NON-melancholy! They are writing great fucking rocking songs. let them. being a fan, a REAL, TRUE FANATIC, means giving your rock heroes the benefit of the doubt.

let them rock. let them fucking just make riffs and beats and GREAT fucking 3 minute ROCKL songs. That has always been a part of sonic youth music, and always will be and if you do not see that then you have not explored their full catalogue. (if you listen to RATS you can hear trhe same guitar from Eric's Trip, which is why they are playing Eric's Trip live now. the same guitar was used for both and they recorvered it along with some of their stolen gear remember?)
sonic youth is not NYCG&F. It is NOT washing machine. i is not the SYR series. it is all of these things and more in one package. you don;t like this album? keep quiet and wait for the next one, because it will be different yet again.

disilussion my ass. the album is okay.