how do you feel about The Eternal as a "final album"?
 

if SY is really no more I mean?

I know SYR9 came out later, but as a studio album...

my feeling is that even if they are split, we'll get archival material in the form of reissues w/ bonus discs, live albums, subsequent SYR's recorded prior, etc.

BUt studio album-wise:

on the one hand, I loved Eternal. I think it's a great way to end on a high note. On another, it bums me out even more. Makes me wonder what could have come next.

Thoughts?

It's not a bad album but I don't really like the idea of it as a "final" album, I definitely prefer to consider SYR9 (I mean the closing track? wow) as a satisfying culmination of everything they've done.

Hopefully we're all wrong and there's more but for now....

My opinion is that the Eternal and SYR9 are both great ends of SY, if there is coming nothing more. And you all have to remember it´s very rare that bands that have existed so long make great last album. Only Beefhearts Ice Cream for Crow comes into my mind when I am thinking great last albums.

I think Massage The History, as the final (and best IMO) track on The Eternal, would be a pretty fantastic full-stop to their recording career.

And if you include SYR9, Theme D'Alice would be a good way to bow out too. I stress the use of the word 'would', though. I'm not convinced it's over.

Actually, this album is just now starting to grow on me. I've had it since before its release, but I have never really appreciated it as a singular work until recently. It was actually the say the final show was released on the internet. I was waking taking the bus home, thinking about the break up, and this was the only SY album that was on my iPod at the time. So I listened to it, from start to finish, and it all started to make sense on a strange way.

I definitely think it is a worthy album, and I believe it has a place in SY history. Is it all that it could have been? Probably not. But how many final albums are perfect? Most bands don't end on top, with an Abbey Road/Let it Be kind of final statement that perfectly sums up their career. So I'm not going to say it couldn't have been better, or that I wouldn't love to see my favorite group end with another, more definitive, final album. But it certainly could have been a good deal worse. Plus, the title is pretty perfect, and "Massage the History" is about as great a final song as one could hope for.

Aye fuck you!

The eternal...it's a nice album, but AS far as their "farewell" Nah.....Honestly, I'd rather have them end with another NYC Ghost & FLowers-esque album.

I think they could havec ended much better, but it is not possible to compare the begining to the end. The beginning is always better. like sex

Eternal would be a lousy final statement.

Most final albums aren't made with the foreknowledge that it will be the last one, which is why they are disapointing when listened to as such.

But if SY knew they were going to make a final album, it wouldn't sound like ETERNAL, which, in my opinion, was an attempt to cash in with a particular segment of the record-buying public. (It worked. It's their highest charted album last I checked.)

It would sound like a final statement. It would sound like SY unfettered by any consideration other than their collective muse. Christ, can you imagine how mind-blowing the closing track would be? It would put Massage the History (overrated) to shame. Hell, it would put Diamond Sea or Expressway or ___ to shame.

And I've always preferred the middle of sex.

I don't like Rather Ripped but think 'Or' would've made a decent finale.

says you, sex is an art, and it only gets better with time. When it declines it is not because of the passing of time, but rather a waning of interest.

Back to the OP, the Eternal is a fine enough album to end on, it could be worse, it could have all ended on EJSTNS ;)

What I eventually decided with R.E.M. was, it is much more fun and meaningful alike, to consider New Adventures in Hi Fi / Up / Reveal / Around the Sun / Accelerate ... and Collapse all as their final album. :P

so with Sonic Youth,
A Thousand Leaves / NYC Ghosts and Flowers / Murray Street / Sonic Nurse / Rather Ripped / The Eternal ... i guess is what I would consider their final album, for now. I just like how it feels to pretend a band on hiatus has released a several hours long mind inspiring/shocking final release spaced out across several years, do you? :)

I don't think it's their strongest effort, but still a great record nonetheless. I feel the fact that musically it contained so many elements from sonic-days past that it will hold up well as a final record...a little something there for anyone and everyone that takes the time to listen to it.

I was kinda hoping for a while that they'd do an acoustic album. Maybe one day.

And no matter what kind of note they ended on, or may eventually end on, there will always be a "what could have came next". These sort of thoughts, while fun to entertain, are barely worth considering much as they can become a bit draining and never go anywhere...sorta like sitting around debating what Nirvana or Kurt would have went on to do...no one will ever really know for sure. I think with the youth there was a formula strong enough to maybe speculate..but that's all that could ever happen, speculations. I was always sorta hoping they'd break the formula a bit...I thought, personally, an acoustic record would have been an interesting way to do it. Maybe a series of acoustic albums.

Maybe it´s hard to believe, but when Eternal came, I was really excited about it and thinking it was their Sgt. Pepper! I mean it is kind of "perfect" SY album, great songs and sounds are quite soft and balanced, there are no sharp elements that are very typical almost all the other SY albums (I think only comparison to Eternal is Daydream Nation). I don´t mean I don´t like those sharp elements. Well, maybe I even then didn´t think it was better than EVOL or Sister, but anyway SY is to me one of the rare bands whose material haven´t ever got bad. There are two albums, that I was disappointed right after their release, but I have also learned to love them later.

I don´t think it´s realistic to expect that SY will decide to make a "great, final album" and also succeed in that. I think in art when somebody is trying to make something, I mean in purpose trying to make something really great, it´s just don´t work. I think what´s really great in SY-albums that they sound very natural made to me.

Quit being sucha Debbie Downer.

They should have ended after Sonic Nurse. That would have been decent.

My experience is that you´re not approved on SY board if you like both Rather Ripped and the Eternal. It seems you have to hate both or one of them if you want to be someone who is respected here. I know here are fans who like them both, but they very rare say their opinion (I understand them, because there is too much people who want to threw their hate everytime it´s possible).

I hope SY will continue, if they can make as great records as Eternal is. But I also think it´s better to split than make any lousy record and I really believe SY will do it, if they notice they don´t have anything to give anymore.

^ Rather Ripped is their worst album....but I still like it.


I still listen to it.

This.

I don't agree about it being the "perfect SY album," but I am on board with just about everything else you're saying. I too was extremely excited for Eternal, as I have been for every new SY album since the mid 90s. However, I have been listening to them long enough to know never to be surprised if an album doesn't grab me on the first listen. Very few of them have, and I knew Eternal would probably be no different. It's taken Mich lo Ger than usual for this one to grab me, but it finally has.

I think the album stands out or its production, which is often shat on by fans, but is actually extremely precise. Yes, it's kind of "big rock" sounding, but it's "big rock" done extremely well.

Christ!

I feel awful about it!!!! I feel awful about any album being their last, but ending with the worst album they've made ever does not make me feel any better.

I would say that I like about half of Eternal. The other half is still not terrible..... better than most bands' best, but when compared with their other music it's like a bad joke. Anti-Orgasm is a good example. The noise is great, but the lyrics are just kind of stupid. Also I think the whole album lacks subtlety. Dirty lacked subtlety too, but we haven't had 20 years to appreciate the lack of subtlety on Eternal.

after consulting several bootlegs I came to realize that The Eternal is simply a live album that didn't come out well in the production. That material makes for some great sounding setlists, but the studio versions are lacklustre in comparison. In that regard, I think The Eternal is a great way to end their career, not necessarily from the perspective of the album, but from the stage show. Rather Ripped was a kick ass record btw, would have been an equally impressive exclamation point on their career. I think this makes a point, this band has been making new and interesting music longer than most people on his forum have been alive, myself included. That being said, really, what more do we expect from this band? Personally, after 1000 Leaves I always considered every album as potentially "their last" and always saw them as miraculous gifts of art from one foot in the grave, so I respected them all the more and enjoyed them as an indulgence. In all honesty, I'd say that bringing in Jim was the spark that kept it going that one last extra push, and when he split it didn't take tea leaves or animal entrails to figure it out..

I feel nothing.

I feel you.

You make it sound as though people are deliberately going against their true instincts by saying they dislike those albums. I suppose some might but as someone who dislikes both (although I quite like a couple of songs on Eternal) it seems to me that SY in recent years have almost no connection with what initially got me interested in them. Not better or worse, necessarily, just incomparably different. Apart from loyalty or curiosity, what is there in Rather Ripped or The Eternal that should make a fan of Confusion is Sex or Bad Moon Rising feel in any way obliged to care about them?

That may well make me narrow minded but not dishonest or (heaven forbid) searching for respect here. I never expected or wanted SY to stop progressing, I just don't really care much for where that progression has taken them.

I think that I just don't know.

My compelling desire to call you people names for being so morose is now overwhelmed by a total lack of feeling.

Legit.

I gave it some thought and came to the conclusion that since I always listen to discographies on random, it would be hard to care less about any specific album.

besides, in thirty years, when the reunion album is released, you people will look like whinging FOOLS.


I hope stu bans you.

Aye, I do'nt say I agree, I'm just sayin' that, hEy! he gave a legit reason as to why he don't give a fuck.

Why he *doesn't give a fuck.

Please, let's keep this in english.

So, do you see SY's "evolution" over the past 30 years as more of a "devolution?"

Personally I've always felt that their changing sound has been the result of growth and adaptation. I love every one pf SY's "eras," and if I had to choose a favorite I would be stumped. But I can also understand how someone might see it differently. It isto definitely true that SY in 88 and SY 2008/9 are extremely different.

I thought it was complete shit at first, though I probably didn't admit it at the time. It is true that loyalty has played a part in all this. But I think it actually ranks among their best. It's their only attempt at pop that has really hit the mark, in my opinion.

-It is odd how Rather has gotten better over time. How does it do that? I'm hoping the same thing happens with Eternal. Maybe five years from now I'll love it. Right now I don't.

-Pop. I suppose Rather and Eternal (not to mention Dirty) are all considered their "pop" albums. That's some fucked up pop, you must admit. I don't think Katy Perry will be covering any SY tunes anytime soon.

I thought Rather Ripped kicked ass right out of the gate, and I am happy to say to to any of y'all sonic snobs. We had this same kind of knee-jerk be a jerk reactions about Sonic Nurse when we thought it was the "last album" and everybody was having silly nostalgia for albums like Daydream Nation or Sister or EVOL blah blah.. ..woof ..woof.. meh.

I think Sonic Nurse is the greatest album they've ever made, and truly one of the top ten of ALL TIME by anybody. Yet so many folks took what seemed like years to finally realize just what kind of masterpiece it was. That being said, yes folks will inevitably come to terms with a better understanding of The Eternal. Is it as good as Sonic Nurse? Of course not. Does it suck? Hardly :)

Sonic Nurse was the beginning of the end for Sonic Youth as the sort of band that tickled my curiosity in terms of "what now and what next". I like The Eternal a lot and personally prefer it to SN and RR by a mile. The magic's gone for a good number of years now. They didn't strike me as following a sort of creative path for aeons, more like "let's see if this'll do for the fans". Not a huge deal though, great band etc. They certainly achieved creatively more than I could ever hope for.

the magic was gone in the studio, I think it left after 1000 Leaves and made an albeit brief appearance on Nurse, but was really the exception rather than the rule. but the stage shows have been electric, unfeigned, crackling with dynamic energy and creativity since Jim came in and rejuvinated things. I think that when he left is when things were just going through the motions. That is what surprised me the most by Rather Ripped and the Eternal, that these albums aren't really that bad, and the stage show was indeed rather impressive, even without Jim's energy and vibe. I loved me some Jim O in sonic youth, my favorite of all the eras.

I've been listening to the Eternal this morning and realized what is good about it. It is a coalesced, syncretic blend of all that has been sonic youth. It has the noisecore of the early 1980s beyond experimental sonic youth. It has the structure, chords, and classic rock leads which the band tried during the post-Nurse years (Lee playing actual "leads" still trips me the fuck out!!). It has the vocal harmonies they tried with Rather Ripped too, a sort of CSN&Young approach to sonic youth. It also has the drone melodies which are patented Thurston Moore. Provokingly satire for lyrics, whispy Lou Reedesque vocals, distortion, ambience, rolling polyrhythmic drum work.

The Eternal is actually a better conclusion then I think we all realized, because I feel the Eternal has a bit of EVERY album in it. This is different than what SY had traditionally done in the past, where they evolved into new styles for each couple of albums, and then changed it up again. This album seems like a true retrospective look back sonically of what exactly is Sonic Youth music. In that regard, it makes a perfect introduction as well, because it encapsulates a bit of all the sonic youth magic, a bit of everything they do very well.

thank you sonic youth, we didn't fully understand what you gave us, but now, I get it :)

Nobody is in any position to suggest how people should feel about an artist's body of work.

That is a cop out, like when all a professor writes is "Nice job" on a huge research paper, when all you really wanted was for him to go for the jugular with his red pen ;)

SUCH: As usual, your enthusiasm is charming (which is why we all love you) but unconvincing.

And for the record: no one WANTS to dislike Eternal. I'm sure we'd all be happy if it had been the greatest thing SY ever made. But I think the general verdict says it's simply not.

But you are right about how the songs improved live. Then again, a fantastic boot I have features Tom Violence, a DDN song or two, and a big chunk of Sister. Those songs, even after 10,000 listens, are still mind-blowing. The Eternal stuff is merely better than the studio recordings. And that's the way it is.