I hate when...
 

people say "We should all pray for the families of so-and-so. It's the least we can do."

I want to scream at their fucking smug faces, "YES! YES IT IS INDEED THE VERY LEAST YOU CAN DO! And that is all you WILL do you fucking sanctimonious hypocrite FUCK!!!!"

If everyone that solely prayed would get off their fucking asses and DO something, even something as tiny and seemingly insignificant as writing an email to a victim of trauma to let them know you care. THAT is a hundred times more beneficial and godly than a fucking prayer.

fuck religion. fuck it all to hell.

All religions make me wanna throw up
All religions make me sick
All religions make me wanna throw up
All religions suck
They all claim that they have the truth
That'll set you free
Just give 'em all your money and they'll set you free
Free for a fee

They all claim that they have 'the Answer'
When they don't even know the Question
They're just a bunch of liars
They just want your money
They just want your consciousness

All religions suck
All religions make me wanna throw up
All religions suck
All religions make me wanna BLEAH

They really make me sick
They really make me sick
They really make me sick
They really make me sick
They really make me sick
The really make me ill.

We're all praying for you, Rob. Its the least we can do.

indeed.

Rob, aren't you old enough to be a bit more empathetic to other people? You can be on your atheist FTW trip, that's cool, but why be such a dick about it? You can rant and rave against missionaries, evangelicals, people knocking on your door with literature, but seriously, the cultural act of "praying for someone" when sincere transcends religions. You should be old enough by now to understand what that really means, it means, "I will be thinking dearly of you, sympathizing and empathizing with what you are experiencing." Yes, there is are some glib, bullshit prayers in thrown around as PR and spin in the media/politics, but when people on the street, in your family, at your job, in your community tell you sincerely, "I will pray for you" at least respect their fond feelings for you, and recognize that while you may not agree with their religion, you should at least appreciate that somebody in the world is thinking of you in a fond and sympathetic way rather then being a little boy and kicking people in the shins with some middle school punk rock lyrics. meh.

i agree with rob... as william blake put it: "as the plow follows words, so god rewards prayers"

(hilarious)

anyway--- rob, i hope you alright?

!@#$%!, I am not surprised at all that you agree with such middle school feelings. Again, y'all should grow up. When people are sincerely praying for each other, its not just an empty gesture, its a form of sympathy and empathy. ALL people should be kind enough to think about each other in sympathy and fondness from time to time, and this is what is meant by "praying for each other." Besides,w ould y'all yell those mean things to your grandmothers if they said they'd pray for you too?

I am great. Shit's just grating to me.

My wife and I always volunteer at various charities, where we think we can do some good. My wife yesterday went on a van tour of places being helped by a charity here in Houston that is working to help those victimized by human trafficking for the sex trade. She came home steaming hot, deeply offended by the way the tour "guides" described their work, and about how very little of it is actually about informing the public and helping those who suffer, and how much of it is the same-ol' "I can't do anything for you but let me save your soul!!!", and horrendous advice, such as, when they were at a very very seedy dangerous location, the guides told the group that if threatened by someone they should respond with "what, are you threatening me with heaven?" As if that will somehow quell some psycho's murderous impulse.

Just fucking tired of it all. Tired of the lies, the hypocrisy, the self-congratulation for what is basically a 2 hour diversion from their "normal" lives... It just makes me sick.

I help people. I jump in first thing, never worrying about myself, much to my wife's concern. She knows I am the first to run into traffic to help accident victims, the first to comfort and console those who have just lost someone, etc. I do not do this for rewards in this life nor in whatever supposed next life everyone keeps trying to brainwash themselves exists after death.

My wife and I do this at secular organizations, at religious organizations, and any place we can help. The religious ones are the FUCKING WORST. Seemingly 1/2 the volunteers are there to make themselves feel better about themselves. The other half seem to be "putting in their time" so that god, or jesus or whothefuckever notices, and marks it in their permanent record.

The few people like us, the ones who want to help because we know what it is like to not have anyone helping, we are all beaten down, worn out by the endless bullshit spewed by those who pretend to do good. They only make it harder to help others.

It is a sad shame

I have nothing against personal prayer. what I have deep rage against is people using prayer as some sort of fail-safe tool. Your individual relationship with whatever creator you wish to assign the universe to is your business. Trying to use your supplications to that creator as some sort of HELP makes me sick.

It is more important for these churches to advertise themselves than it is to help those they claim to help.

One more example. My wife works with a n outreach group that prepares sandwhich meals for poor kids to eat at school. The main concern with them is that the large, pretty sticker on the plastic bags (which reads "brought to you by so-and-so church!") is properly placed on the bag and that it is colorful and that it is neat-lloking. When asked by my wife why they take so much trouble and money to make these stickers as opposed to using that money for actually nutritious food for the kids, they had no answer, other than that is what "really" mattered. (two pieces of white bread, a squirt of mustard, and a slice of bologna is as far as they wish to go to actually feed the kids)

The indoctrination of the mind is more critical than the nutrition of the kid's body.

That is the issue.

at least businesses have a stated goal, to make money.

a church's goal is not to help, or to minister, it is to convert minds to their way of thinking. Mind Control is their primary intent. TRUST ME.

hey suchfriends, this was in no way an attack on you or on anyone who wishes to pray. and yes, I have asked my grandma what good her prayers will do. It was after repeated requests to pray for my dad who was slowly dying of cancer. I asked her exactly that, "what good would it do?" (this was about 22 years ago. I had quit on religion at age 12, about 5 years before))
she had no answer. May as well chant "Serenity Now" to myself over and over again.

Rob. You can't change peoples hearts by force of will, or the strength of your conviction, your the reality of what you are speaking. I agree with you completely, hypocrisy is horrifying. However, not ALL religious people or organizations or groups are as hypocritical an experience as your wife's recent experience.
Like I said, when people are sincerely praying for each other, they are directly thinking about each other, and thought is the first step to motivate people towards action. Only after they feel it, will they act on it. Prayer is a form of thinking, meditating, and reflecting about each other, and in that process, people are moved to action. Trust that. I've been witness to it for my entire life. Empty anger only creates those negative things you are against. Your attitude is not helpful, and did all that mean-spirited cursing honestly make you feel any better? Really?


Yes, again many religious people are indeed shamefully self-indulged hypocrites. I agree completely. However, I have also seen many sincere acts by these religious people as well. There are many ministries which are poor, hurting, or suffering peoples only life-line. The Orthodox Church is what helped close the Gulags, be they in Russia or Ethiopia. Te Catholic Church helped chase out those duppy genocidal military dictatorships in Central America. Priests, pastors, and genuinely religious people worked EVERY SINGLE DAY IN THE TRENCHES, IN THE COMMUNITY, JUST AS YOU ARE ASKING PEOPLE TO DO. You need to respect that. It is part of reality. Even if God is entirely a myth and organized religion a crafty ploy, many people on a daily basis do extreme good for each others having been moved by their faith. That is what you are not understanding. All those people may not have jumped off that bus and radically changed the situation. However, you can't know what that seed planted will produce inevitably in their hearts. In the future, those might be the strongest ally and actor towards solving those problems. However, your attitude is counter-productive. You need to focus on the hypocrisy itself, not focusing so much on those peoples faith or your own lack there-of. Accept that many people believe different things, and they shouldn't be a dick or hypocrite about it and neither should you. When you are telling people FUCK YOU and being all caustic, how is that constructive, how does that help any other person? You are free to vent. I vent here all the time. However, it is a common theme of yours across like the past ten years I've known your ass. Calm down. Hate God inside your heart all you'd like, curse religion every day, but try your best not to make it so personal against other people. You're not helping them, and you're not helping yourself.

true, just venting.

and it is not just a recent experience. I have dealt with it for nearly all of my 40 years.

I am fed up with it. I never said "fuck the religious" BTW. I say FUCK RELIGIONS.

and while you give decent advice suchfriends, it is the religious devout throughout the world that are the most adamant about MAKING IT PERSONAL. They will kill you because you bad mouth their imagined creator.

It could be said that those extremists, fundamentalists, and radicals aren't exactly the most religious, considering all such religions decry murder, violence, and scathing judgment. Don't mistake religion with (a) superstition or (b) thinly veiled politics or opportunism. The Taliban, Al Qaeda in Iraq, the Muslim Brotherhood, are all overtly politically motivated militant groups. While they are saturated with religious language, I think its safe to say many of their actions fall short of their own religion's humanistic goals. Further, its a chicken and egg matter, its hard to sort out what is truly motivating towards violence, a sincere religious hatred or the opportunity for gaining power or plunder in the name of religion? Of course, I generally agree with Marxists and other Historical Materialists who propose that economics and power more so than any particular ideology (of which constitutes religion) tend to be a more direct motivation behind peoples behaviors.

We decry religions and capitalism for all the bad things; and while we do, socialism, atheism and enviromentalism are all becoming increasingly powerful vehicles for bigotry, bullying, hypocrisy and hatemongering. And people aren't noticing, because it is too easy to keep on blaming the old offenders.

because the "old offenders" are 90% of the power structure. That has not changed.

The vatican is a thousand plus year old organization with all the baggage and outdated morality that entails.

Believe me, religions notice only what they think will affect their control of their people.

The problem is humans in groups, not the group. As soon as any group get a voice, they take on all the characteristics they pretended to despise previously.

Socialists join the most overtly bullying people, atheists join the most bigoted people and environmentalists become the most authoritarian. They abuse their position just as much as everyone else ever did.

And every group that gets a voice instantly decides that it has found this magical thing, a bigotry that's justified, a noble prejudice whose sounds must be rung. Take the speeches of many atheist or socialist leaders, replace the words 'capitalist' or 'religious' with 'homosexuals' or 'immigrants', and tell me it's not bigoted.

The same sentiments, the same delusion, the same hatred, the same bigotry.

the sheer dishonesty of suchfriends response that those murderers and extremists 'aren't REALLY religious' is an absolute embarrassment. it's on the same level as saying "those nazis that did the war and gas chambers weren't REAL nazis" or "those stalinist purge and holodomor guys weren't REALLY communist".

I'm not defending what has been done in the name of religion, merely pointing out that none of the behaviour displayed is unique to religion.

And even if I were, I wouldn't be the only one refusing to accept that my hatred is the same vile filth as everyone else's hatred. Not by a long way.

"Your bigotry bad, my Bigotry good" is the modern way.

"You must tolerate what I say, because it's my freedom of speech, but if I'm expected to tolerate your opinion then that is against my human rights."

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Hip Priest again.


Whatever you say. Nazism was a political ideology which was actually veiled in esoteric pagan religious imagery, all I implied was that Al-Qaeda is the same kind of thing whereas Rob's assertion was that religion is the primary or sole motivation. I beg to differ. You can't negate political (power) and economic (money) influences behind ALL human behavior, especially that which is radical or violent.

Even the Crusades were largely a geopolitical and financial matter, hence why on the Third Crusade they skipped Jerusalem and the Muslims altogether and instead sacked their political rival, Byzantium. What was the Inquisition? A political response and retaliation to the political and economic threat of Protestantism. Those are my opinions. You don't have to rudely call me a liar or disingenuous simply because you disagree with my analysis. :cool:

I never brought up al quaeda or terror or militant positions. I stated that the main reason for religions to exist is to gain converts, to change minds.

Otherwise they are pointless social clubs.

and the church is ussually the richest, most opolitically connected organization there is in any country.

That is why the US Constitution was written in a secular manner, with no basis on church doctrine, and the intrinsic disconnection of the government from the religions that try to take government over.

so anytime I see some fuck claim that the founding fathers created the USA and wrote the constitution on Christian principles, it MAKES ME FUCKING ENRAGED!!!!!

what you have stated are not opinions but historical facts, which i would not argue with. however your pretension that religion is somehow separate from these endeavours and doesn't actively encourage them is totally disingenuous. you can play the game of 'but that's not REAL religion' all you want but it's simply dishonest. you can't disentangle the economic and the political from the religious. in fact it strikes me that doing so reduces religion to nothing more than a total impotent individualistic lifestyle accessory. which you probably don't have a problem with.

your supposed innocent space wherein true, inherently peaceful and benevolent religion is practiced is a total sham. you know this but it doesn't fit into your frankly self aggrandizing preaching of an archaic and increasingly obsolete primitive fantasy.

also, i don't disagree with anything hip priest said.

Here's a story:

I recently came into a bunch of food. I wanted to donate it. I heard the Salvation Army refuses to hire homosexuals, since they are religiously affiliated, so I said fuck that and went looking for another place.

All my other options were religious. Admittedly, I didn't do a week's-long investigation; I just went through the phone book because I wanted to get rid of the stuff. But I didn't find any place to accept a bunch of food that wasn't somehow affiliated with a religion, one way or another. (I ended up giving it to the Jews.)

Rob's right in a lot of ways. That is to say, I share his prejudice.

But what's up Seculars? Why don't I ever run across The Altruistic Atheists Food Bank?

There is a secular Food Bank in Houston, a HUGE one, the biggest source of food for the other shelters (homeless/women's/family) in the Houston area.

Churches have the best infrastructure to enact charities. No tax people looking over their shoulder, no regulation. secular charities have to conform to a strictt set of criteria that make it difficult to maintain.

that's good to know. really. i thought you were going through difficult shit and people were offering you empty "prayers". so it's good to know you're alright.

as for the rest of what you say: yes, yes, yes.

funny thing i read once-- the ancient romans despised christians because they put their own personal salvation above the interests of rome. i agree--what petty fuckers!


i have a similar problem with goodwill, the salvation army, etc. particularly the fucking salvation army (have you ever read dh lawrence's "apocalypse"? a bit of a rabid antisemitic tract, slightly demented, but nevertheless highly entertaining.) anyway. the salvation fuckin army. or was is orwell who wrote about them? he too i think, in down & out in paris and london, didn't he?.

ANYWAY, secular-- there are places! a bunch in my area. the hippie food coop sponsors all sort of volunteer stuff too. toss that old phone book and google.

And considering just how many millions of people every day serve in hospitals, jails, schools, community centers, food kitchens, shelters, and all kinds of public service either directly organized by or individually motivated by religion/faith perhaps you need to reevaluate your conclusions about how religion isn't exactly changing peoples' minds for the better or how they are pointless?

i don't believe that you would accept that answer from me, or that you even accept it yourself. you know exactly which parts of the bible and koran i am referring to. you're deliberately avoiding mentioning them.

talking about blowing up abortion clinics and invading is the most transparent obfuscation when you know very well what violence and evil the bible does promote.

extremists haven't hijacked the narrative, they're following through on it.

A sham, and I know it? Real deep there. Again, calling people liars and disingenuous is counter-productive. There is nowhere in the Bible or the Quran, neither in the legitimately recognized literary bodies of Christian or Islamic "tradition" which supports blowing up abortion clinics or occupying military forces, in fact, generally quite the opposite. Have extremists hijacked the narrative in order to manipulate generally ignorant, poor, or idealistic people to join in jihads, crusades, and missions? Yes. Is that the core of these? No. Again, that is my analysis, and you can disagree with it all you'd like without resulting in personally scathing attacks like calling me a liar or the perpetrator of some kind of scam. :cool:

Also, real classy with that self-aggrandizing preaching and archaic fantasy part, did you steal that from a real clever blog? When have I ever been preachy? EVEN ROB CAN VOUCH, THE ONLY THING I PREACH IS MUTUAL RESPECT, TOLERANCE, AND LOVE. Your scathing attitude and Rob's crass comments are not part of that dialogue. So I jumped in. I've never promoted one organization, institution, or ideology over another, rather that we all learn to be nice to each other. If you can't dig it, you will inevitably learn how, we all share this planet together.

you preach constantly. facile buzzwords like "respect, tolerance and love" can be both preachy and pukeworthy. they're certainly meaningless in such shallow contexts and posted solely for the benefit of your own ego.

this is not something i dig or will ever acquiesce to because its just feel good vapidity or bland truisms coming from an imminently extinct religion.

heres a lazy copypasta to illustrate:

Numbers 31:17Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. 18But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

Psalms 137:9Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.

Ezekiel 9: 5And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: 6Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house. 7And he said unto them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city.

Deuteronomy 21:18If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: 19Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; 20And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. 21And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

Whose ego is fooling who? Like I said, folks here can vouch that I sincerely work towards these goals, and if you are contrary, you'll learn inevitably, your strategy is doomed to failure. Only tolerance, respect, and love can build, everything crassly destroys. Its like Dumas wrote, "Those who can't build take pride only in destroying."

so we don't just blame the jew bible

book of matthew

3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

NUCULAR!

and of course:

Matthew 5:17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

^^ disobedient sons should duck when jesus approaches rock-in-hand

--> ephesians 6, 5-9

Slaves should obey their masters as they would obey Christ. Don't just give lip service, instead obey from your heart. Know that whether slave or free you will receive back what you give from the lord. Masters, stop threatening your slaves, know that he who is master to both of you is in heaven.

nothing you or anyone else ever builds will do anything but fail and crumble. that may be totally against the creation narrative of judaism/xtianity/islam but it is empirically verifiable scientific fact and was already known to the eastern buddhist metaphysicians hundreds of years before your religion finally gave way to something of actual intellectual worth.

these were the same "heathens" your texts command to be stoned to death. yet even they were more advanced than the religions you mention, all those centuries ago.

also, they never fell for the vain delusion it was possible to create anything. science has also proved free will, morality and intention to be fallacies or vague metaphors at best.

i know its hard to believe but some of us don't claim the impersonal and exterior forces that puppeteer our bodies and work through us as our own. so no, i don't have a strategy.

dead_battery, such bursting optimism and hospitable congeniality ! Surely that great attitude is bound to be successful!!

the belief that any of those things are likely to bring success is superstition.

the belief there is any success to attain is the same. it's also anathema to me. but obviously not to you sons of yahweh.

dale_gribble Replying to Thread
I hate when...

so make a secular church to evade big brother. you're welcome genteel