[Glice]

I tend to think the problem with bands using orchestras is that they use them for the gravitas, for the big thick sound, rather than for what the orchestra actually does. So the Cellos ape the bassline and the strings follow the melody/ chords... it becomes a loud piano rather than what a classical orchestra does, more generally. If you think about the opening to Beethoven's 5th (after the famous Dun dun dun DUUUUUHs), there's three main lines of melody/ harmony, moving in complimentary motion relative to the bar, coming together at the end of the phrase. It's not a complex trick, after some 300 years of 'classical' music, but it's the sort of thing that rock bands tend not to do - they prefer phrases defined by the first beat of the bar, or the off-beat in reggae. I'm sure there are rock musicians who can get away from it, and I know Zappa was fairly well-trained but... well, Zappa's incapable of making serious music, everything he does is defined, for me, by his general hatred of music and his appalling sense of humour (whether he's doing 'funny' stuff like don't eat the yellow snow or not).