[Starcat]

Originally Posted by ann ashtray

Not everyone is weird for weirds sake, unless you are looking at it from some philosophical angle that doesn't much apply to this discussion. Some people feel much more comfortable within the confines of "common", even if ya get into all that "yesterday's avant garde is tomorrow's pop" stuff. And weird will NEVER sell as much as common. Usually those that rip off the weird, polish it down to something bright and shiny most can swallow, go on to make more money than those that started whatever given approach. Think: Black Flag + Scratch Acid vs. Nirvana. Glenn Branca and Tom Verlaine vs. Sonic Youth. DNA vs. Blonde Redhead..etc/etc/etc.

And to say people "ate up" what Lydia was doing then is far fetched. Countless stories exist (by those that were there) that no wave wasn't this overly popular thing at the time it was going on. Clubs w/ maybe ten people, most of which would leave before the show was over kinda stuff. If anything, people dig that stuff more today than they did at the time it was going on. Those bands didn't last long...most went on to other at least semi formal approaches to music, many dropped off the face of the map. If they were doing well for themselves doing whatever it was they were doing, they would have stuck it out far longer than the few years it lasted. Also, minimal approached, weird approaches, to music existed LOOOOONG before Lydia hit the scene. No Wave, while interesting, was arguably a more adolescent approach to what say Terry Riley and Harry Partch and the like were already doing years prior. Of course, the adolescent vibes are what pulls a lot of younger people into it...many of which will eventually go on to bigger/better things. I honestly seldom listen to any of that stuff these days. I still Enjoy Glenn Branca at times...and all of James Chance's stuff has stuck near me. James really stuck out from the rest of those guys, however. So did Branca. It wasn't weird for weirds sake....it was honest art. It was folks w/ legitimate artistic ideas that wanted to explore them and felt sincere about what they were doing. I never felt Lydia was sincere about music...that said, I also always felt she was sincere about the way she hoped her audience would react toward her music. Esp. in those No Wave days. This was cool when I was a kid...however, as an adult, I find it boring. Nothing worse than a group of "pretty people" on stage trying to shock me via ageless antics.

It's important to remember "lyric spitting and shit talking" existed loooooong before Lydia Lunch. Check" The Deviants/Stooges/Electric Eels/PUNK ROCK (who Lydia was NOT a founder of) yadda yadda yadda.

I quite like what you said about people polishing down weird bands to make them successful... What I meant by saying that people ate Lydia up was that people into No Wave at the time elevated her to one of the big players. Not even James Chance, who as you said had the most listenable style, became as "successful" as the people who polished up his style and represented it as pop music. Lydia Lunch wasn't revolutionizing music, wasn't creating a successful band or one that's listenable today, but for her time and place she WAS important and influential. And that's enough for her to earn my respect.