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evollove · 12.25.2014, 10:04 AM

Destroyer of the foreign lands, you confer strength on the storm. Beloved of Enlil, you have made awesome terror weigh upon the Land.

Enlil loves the US military?

----

So the shitiness passed? He/she/them/the situation was fucked and you didn't deserve to deal with that.

---

Remember this? Right on the cusp of being a really fun thread.

http://www.sonicyouth.com/gossip/showthread.php?t=87866

Anyway, I direct your attention to your first post, the second in the thread.

Regarding Cheever's short story "The Swimmer:" i read this in college. i wasn't very highly impressed but then again i was coming from latin america so i didn't really care much for first world problems at the time (i've gone rotten since then).

But now you think...

Well, it doesn't matter. It seems you haven't developed and cemented a fixed position, which is great. Who says we're supposed to have everything settled in our heads? I don't trust anyone who has a strong point of view on everything.

So, at first I was reacting to the general dismissal of "first world problems" in contemporary discourse. I get it: one can always say, "Who cares about X when there are starving Africans" and that's certainly true. What can I say?

(Although it's worth pointing out that neither of us are going to work with lepers or sign up for the Peace Corp anytime soon.)

Then you contextualized it through an essay I found ridiculous.

I tend to find two types of book-chat essays online: those that claim literature will bring about world peace and clear up acne, and those that claim literary culture is a big con and you're a sucker. This essay belongs to the latter.

If his whole point is that INFINITE JEST was written by the in-group for the in-group to reaffirm the in-group's belief system or whatever, I can't really respond because I haven't read it. If his point is larger, that this is an epidemic, then I find it annoying he'd use Wallace as an example. I think he's going after a sacred cow to ruffle feathers and garner more attention for his ideas. It's cheap.

But in either case I would ask: how the fuck does he know how "outsiders" read the book, or books in general? Did he interview anyone who doesn't belong to the in-group to work out how little they got from the book? Maybe that bit comes at the end. Seriously, I'm not reading this whole thing.

It smacks of a certain type of arrogance. He's figured out who reads what and how and why, and I'm saying, "Bullshit. Show me some research."

That bit about blurbs was what made me loose all interest in the piece. He doesn't give examples, but I suppose he means if I go into a bookstore and read a blurb on the back of a book by an "establishment" figure and I then buy that book, I've just fallen into a trap. Maybe this works for some people. For me, not really. If I read a blurb by someone who I like--let's say Philip Roth--why wouldn't I take their opinion into consideration? I know he declines blurb offers, so when he takes one and says something kind, I weigh that when deciding what to read. And there are some establishment figures--Dave Eggers, for example--who I don't really care about, so their blurb doesn't really move me. Am I the exception? Or are there other readers out there who can, you know, think?

What really bothers me is that literary journals are very receptive to "outsider" voices. If I work up the energy, I'll go through the most recent issues of Ploughshares or AGNI or Gettysburg Review or maybe just the most recent Best American Short Story volume and I'm sure I'll find a wide variety of voices and experiences. Yes, I'll find some "first-world" stories as well, but to me that just rounds things out since I am able to take the problems and pains of a millionaire seriously (at least in fiction).

---

Now, if your whole point is you keep running into fiction that is hermetically sealed from your life experience and anything you might be interested in, then what can I say? I don't think you're lying. So maybe that ends things right here.

I will say I am a very generous reader. I am on the lookout for reasons to like what I'm reading. I think you're a bit more critical and on the lookout for reasons to bail from a piece of fiction.

It could be I'm just more gullible. So I swallow fiction easily. And maybe Literary Culture has taken over my mind and I'm hopelessly deluded. Whatever. Life's short and I have many more satisfying reading experiences than miserable ones, so I'm not bothered.

---

The only good thing about Christmas: a whole year until the next fucking one.

12.25.2014, 10:04 AM	#3686
evollove invito al cielo Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 2,879	Destroyer of the foreign lands, you confer strength on the storm. Beloved of Enlil, you have made awesome terror weigh upon the Land. Enlil loves the US military? ---- So the shitiness passed? He/she/them/the situation was fucked and you didn't deserve to deal with that. --- Remember this? Right on the cusp of being a really fun thread. http://www.sonicyouth.com/gossip/showthread.php?t=87866 Anyway, I direct your attention to your first post, the second in the thread. Regarding Cheever's short story "The Swimmer:" i read this in college. i wasn't very highly impressed but then again i was coming from latin america so i didn't really care much for first world problems at the time (i've gone rotten since then). But now you think... Well, it doesn't matter. It seems you haven't developed and cemented a fixed position, which is great. Who says we're supposed to have everything settled in our heads? I don't trust anyone who has a strong point of view on everything. So, at first I was reacting to the general dismissal of "first world problems" in contemporary discourse. I get it: one can always say, "Who cares about X when there are starving Africans" and that's certainly true. What can I say? (Although it's worth pointing out that neither of us are going to work with lepers or sign up for the Peace Corp anytime soon.) Then you contextualized it through an essay I found ridiculous. I tend to find two types of book-chat essays online: those that claim literature will bring about world peace and clear up acne, and those that claim literary culture is a big con and you're a sucker. This essay belongs to the latter. If his whole point is that INFINITE JEST was written by the in-group for the in-group to reaffirm the in-group's belief system or whatever, I can't really respond because I haven't read it. If his point is larger, that this is an epidemic, then I find it annoying he'd use Wallace as an example. I think he's going after a sacred cow to ruffle feathers and garner more attention for his ideas. It's cheap. But in either case I would ask: how the fuck does he know how "outsiders" read the book, or books in general? Did he interview anyone who doesn't belong to the in-group to work out how little they got from the book? Maybe that bit comes at the end. Seriously, I'm not reading this whole thing. It smacks of a certain type of arrogance. He's figured out who reads what and how and why, and I'm saying, "Bullshit. Show me some research." That bit about blurbs was what made me loose all interest in the piece. He doesn't give examples, but I suppose he means if I go into a bookstore and read a blurb on the back of a book by an "establishment" figure and I then buy that book, I've just fallen into a trap. Maybe this works for some people. For me, not really. If I read a blurb by someone who I like--let's say Philip Roth--why wouldn't I take their opinion into consideration? I know he declines blurb offers, so when he takes one and says something kind, I weigh that when deciding what to read. And there are some establishment figures--Dave Eggers, for example--who I don't really care about, so their blurb doesn't really move me. Am I the exception? Or are there other readers out there who can, you know, think? What really bothers me is that literary journals are very receptive to "outsider" voices. If I work up the energy, I'll go through the most recent issues of Ploughshares or AGNI or Gettysburg Review or maybe just the most recent Best American Short Story volume and I'm sure I'll find a wide variety of voices and experiences. Yes, I'll find some "first-world" stories as well, but to me that just rounds things out since I am able to take the problems and pains of a millionaire seriously (at least in fiction). --- Now, if your whole point is you keep running into fiction that is hermetically sealed from your life experience and anything you might be interested in, then what can I say? I don't think you're lying. So maybe that ends things right here. I will say I am a very generous reader. I am on the lookout for reasons to like what I'm reading. I think you're a bit more critical and on the lookout for reasons to bail from a piece of fiction. It could be I'm just more gullible. So I swallow fiction easily. And maybe Literary Culture has taken over my mind and I'm hopelessly deluded. Whatever. Life's short and I have many more satisfying reading experiences than miserable ones, so I'm not bothered. --- The only good thing about Christmas: a whole year until the next fucking one.
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