Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Glice
Whilst not defending Israel entirely, there's an important fact that several of its neighbours, and its neighbours benefactors, refuse to recognise Israel as a state at all. This in no way defends the recent military activities (bombing the shit out of Lebanon in return for a handful of dead), but I do get the sense that it is in no way a simple case of 'Isreal is a terrorist towards its neighbours' because of the various state- or culturally-endorsed terrorist organisations in surrounding countries. Some of these are state-franchised (Hamas), some of these are merely symptoms of a troubled government (Hezbollah) and some of whom operate as covert endorsers of pan-Islamic state denial of Israel (the revolutionary guards).
Again: I do not seek to exonerate Israel, by any means. However, it is divisive and idiotic to suggest (as a great many wet liberals will do) that Israel is some monolithic evil in that territory. How many of the countries surrounding Israel have had some bloody revolution in the last century?
I'd be interested to know what Mr Fugazifan makes of the following: from my perspective as a British person, I find it very difficult to talk about Israel without recourse to a concern over the racial element of Israel as predominantly semitic (although I understand there is a fair proportion of Arab and other races there); there's a further problem that I personally (as a non-Jew) do not believe that Judaism is equatable with Zionism; neither do I see the existence of Israel on the grounds of Zionism as a validating factor. However, I'm sure we all know why Israel was 'created', and that validates its existence well enough for me. Essentially, I'm saying there are at least three major convoluted (in a benign sense) factors to consider when talking about Israel, and that's before you get to the (tired and simplistic) 'America's puppets' argument or the 'attacked by its neighbours' bit.
It's all a bit fucked really, innit?
|
i basically agree with you. even though i am very much against a lot that goes on here, my first instinct is always to defend israel when people immediatly critisize. i think one has to be here to understand the complexity of the situation. but its much easier to say " terrorist state"
my basic ideals are that israel needs to excists, but not as a zionist state, because zionism can easily become racist (ie the KKL doesnt sell houses to arabs) israel definatly has racism, a lot, and it is often legitimised by parliment members and racist political parties.
the way i wish it were here is way to utopian. i wish that it were a free religeous state where freedom of religeon is constitutionalised with the emphasis on a jewish shade but without any legislation based on religeon. that way noobody can be persecuted.
i am very much for letting in refugees, and if not letting them in then sending soldiers there or somehow helping them. as a jewish state it is our responobility to help people like the sudanese, because in the 40's there were not many countries that supported us.
another interesting though is how come most minorities that are persocuted, often once they gain power they persecute. and ingeneral most minorities that have suffered from racism or whatnot are usually racist about another minority
jews against arabs
arabs against jews
middle eastern jews against arabs
a lot of the african american radicals where very antisemitic
etc...
my question is havent we, especially the persecuted, learned that hate just brings more hate?
anyhoo...