Originally Posted by koolthing78

Umm, yeah... that was kind of my point. There's a difference between saying something like "I don't like it" and "it's bad." "It's bad" implies a certain objectivity, like "it's a fact that this is bad, and people who think otherwise are wrong." That's completely different from saying "I don't get it" or "I don't like it," which still leaves room for other people's opinions (and isn't the whole point of music and art to be subjective, up to the individual interpretations of the listener?). Now, I do sometimes contradict myself, and say things like "Paramour is aweful." But the reason I feel they're aweful has to do with their lack of art in the first place. (Which, obviously, is still *my* opinion, so following my rules I should provide supporting evidence if I want to attempt to prove my opinion as fact. But I don't feel like talking about them right now (except to say that their song I keep hearing is too slickly and steriley produced, lifelessly mimics the sound of other things that are popular among teens with disposable income, and lyrically or musically does nothing new that hasn't been done before (and much better, at that)). Anyway, if we are to accept that "Mountain Battles" is bad as a fact, I just want some more details as to what specific aspects make it completely unredeemable, and why I should feel like I'm wrong for loving it. Has someone else expressed the "hopelessly hopeless, life must go on (because death would be too easy and victorious)" sentiment of the line "No council, no grand strategy--no sword to fall on" any better? Or the use of the title of their Spanish song, translated into English, as one line in "Night of Joy" to add a new dimension to that song's meaning? I guess what I'm trying to say is, it's easy to dismiss music at both ends of the spectrum--that which requires no thought to enjoy (for those who enjoy Paramour and the like), and that which requires too much thought to enjoy (ie: the music is not initially captivating enough for you personally to keep you listening and uncovering all the potential hidden gems). I'm sure there are plenty of things that if I really gave them a chance, or got baked out of my mind before listening to them, I might change my opinion on. And while I may never care enough to give those things a chance--or even if I did and I *still* didn't like it--I would never consider labeling it as "bad," knowing full well there may be perfectly good reasons why other people might be astounded at its brilliance or personal relevance.