Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Mr & Bowels
well, i shouldn't have been lazy and generalised like that without explaining exactly what i mean, but i'm at work and it could take pages.
But anyway, if there wasn't a something wrong with the education system your school wouldn't have been full of kids getting wasted and stabbed etc.
|
True enough, and entirely agreed. If we replace 'stabbed' with 'being violent', that pretty much describes any school. Kids have a tendancy towards being vicious, unpleasant fuckers, whatever their background
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Nefeli
we all know, that the individual (person's character and! his/her emotional iq), upbringing and enviroment have a role. we cant extract one parameter or another, although its known that if one is going to thrive, he/she will, the easier or the harder way-depending on the external parametres.
the bad/violent elements will surface at some point, however it might be harder to do so in a peaceful enviroment.
what i m trying to say and i want to be brief, is that Glice forget the fact that you had elements inside you or in your enviroment that triggered your decision making to follow the steps you did. and its not only matter of being clever. the majority of children -and here is where we point at education systems, since the 2 other parametres can fail- have to be aware that there are other ways of living your life than dealing drugs or being part of gangs. they need someone to show them their options. it might be a book they read when they were young, a documentary or a movie they saw. smth that will make them see outside their small fucked up world and then its up to them what they ll do.
|
I'm always stuck on the quandary between determinism and individualism. On one hand, people always are who they are 'Tigers can't change their spots'; on the other hand, no-one has to be a violently anti-social cunt. However, the kids that don't go around stabbing people can still, inadvertantly (to a point) give those around them massive complexes. Having said that, there's an
absolute cunt at work who was clearly bullied by the sporty types when he was young, and harbours massive, generalised grudges against all sport, and most people, as a result. He may have had a troubled childhood, but he's the product of his parents more than he is his school. There comes a point in adulthood where you simply have to say 'I don't have to be bitter the whole of my life', and he's never going to find that point, which makes him the bigger cunt than whoever abused him at school.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by sarramkrop
I was going to reply something along the line of ''Glice, exceptions are one thing, the norm is another thing altogether'' to his post and then I realised that probably he is thinking that himself anyway.
Kids are born with the potential of being smart and intelligent, if the enviroment they inhabit takes away all their possibilities for development at that young an age, it's not like you can simply put the blame on them. They are kids, not adults.
|
I wouldn't say I or anyone else was exceptional, for, y'know, boring reasons. I think what I'm trying to say is that the brutality of poor schooling in this country (which I've experienced to a far lesser degree than a lot of these kids stabbing/ shooting each other) is more a manifestation of society in general than it is causal. Like I say, not everyone in London is a cunt. There are, however, a lot of ruthlessly selfish and belligerently dickheadish people about, and this is by no means exclusive to those 'under-priveleged' sorts. The manifestation of being a prick when you're a city-based prick in a suit is to walk past someone being stamped to death (as happened at Highbury and Islington a few years ago at rush hour). The manifestation for this (very, very small minority) of kids who carry skeng is to stab someone for 'disrespecting' them. School is not causal, it's a microcosm of society at large.
I think there's some core nucleus of agreement between me and the three I've quoted here. It's all terrifically complicated and quite worrying.